I’ve decided to wake up and realise that looks do matter in society, and I’m going to use that to my advantage

[PhoenixRisingHigher]

I was young, slim, dark haired, & reasonably attractive, it was all I had ever known so I thought how I was treated was normal life for everyone.
naturally out going too so that helped open a lot of doors

I then got ill, overweight, & went through serious bereavement , & gave up on looks entirely after grief & other troubles

hajned a stone around the covid era. I looked like a slob, & became not just invisible, but people treated me like I had a low IQ, I was a complete zero. I have in the last year lost the weight, fixed my hair, & started wearing nice clothes again, & instantly I am treated with respect & that my opinion matters.
for example people will smile at me and open door for me and basically treat me nicely

what shocked me was I’m basically the same person inside regardless of how I look
yet people really go treat you so differently

I don't blame society for this, its nature, but I absolutely without doubt understand how much beauty DOES matter, maybe not all the time in every circumstance, but for existing in society, it is important, & its part of getting ahead, investing in looks is just as important as investing in your career & your home.

I don't mind that I was ignored at my worse, quite frankly I am greatful I was ignored in that state because I hated how I looked & I wanted to be invisible, so it served a purpose. But however moral
someone wishes to be, looks do matter as a social species.

so now I’m gonna have to up my game and use it to my advantage
which I also find kinda sad too

but guess it is what it is

I get where you’re coming from, but what actually sounds like happened to you was you were giving off an unhappy aura and were unkempt. People sense things. You can ‘cover it over’ with hair clothes etc, but it will still be sensed. The weight is a red herring. If you’re happy and confident and take care of yourself people will be able to tell and feel drawn to you, and that means mentally not just looks.

Where’s the bit where you realise treating others kindly as you’d want to be treated is important? You seem totally self-centred and immature and selfish if that’s all you took from that realisation.

I have had people shout ‘fat’ insults out of car windows as they drive past me, are those of you convinced that it’s aura/confidence related really saying that in the split second they had to observe me as they passed that they could tell what my confidence and personality level were like and judged me based on that?

Many people are cruel and judgemental based on weight and weight alone, those of us who have been fat know this, we see it and it only becomes more obvious after losing the weight and experiencing the difference.

I have had to go to the emergency minor injuries unit at 9pm on a Sunday dressed in pajamas, ungroomed, hair a state with my son who had spilt a hot cup of tea down his chest and was treated with all the suspicion of a convicted criminal.

I went back to the same minor injuries unit 3 days later at midday for my daughter who had fallen over playing hockey at school so collected and took her there in professional work wear and had an entirely different, respectful and humane experience.

It may have been the circumstances of the injuries that the one at home looked suspicious (it goes without saying it was completely his own accident), but it was also without doubt to do with what I looked like. It shouldnt make a difference, but it does and I won't forget it.

Not everyone is impressed initially and solely on looks. There are many A-list actors are not conventionally attractive but when they are in a movie or are in an interview, they can be mesmerising in a way that makes everyone else fade into the background.

Edited: Hit ‘post’ too early!

For those mentioning confidence, it's hard to build confidence when you were bullied horrendously at school for being fat (by both pupils and teachers), or where you're bullied in the workplace, or on the street, for being fat, being shouted at by passing car drivers, etc. So it's a chicken and egg situation really. Being fat can lead to lack of confidence, wanting to hide away, wanting to avoid people, etc as a natural method of trying to avoid being abused and bullied.

My #1 man crush of all time is jack black. Every stage of his career, he's hot as hell and funny. He's my dream man.

This thread doesn't make sense. You can't have been all that slim if a stone would push you into the overweight category (depending on height, I suppose, but I am not super tall and if I gained a stone I wouldn't be anywhere near overweight, and I'm not underweight now) Also, you are confusing 'grooming' with attractiveness. Looking well put together is not the same as being beautiful. I would bet that what people were reacting to was your body language rather than your appearance per se.

My instinctive distrust of your analysis is that it was so heavily gendered (misogyny + patriarchy).

Whereas all the research that I've seen says that it's prevalent across the genders, and independent of sexual preferences.

I don't think you can stretch the advantage that good looking (symmetrical + taller than average + better hair than average) men benefit from as anything to do with misogyny or tightly conforming to the patriarchal norms.

And since that example exists, it seems reasonable to assume that similar exists for women, rather than a completely different and more complex set of factors as you posited.

Occams razor.

And since you haven't it leads me to think that you are predisposed to see misogyny and the patriarchy where it probably doesn't exist.

If patriarchy is now just referencing societal norms rather than a female-excluding power system, then I'm inclined to agree with you - but i think that's more about familiarity/comfort than conformance per se.

I think it’s all in your head to be honest OP.

I was good looking in my youth , but never groomed or polished and people were always nice to me, Im older and heavier now , and even more of an unkempt slob and people are still nice to me !

I lost a lot of weight in my late twenties and the only people I noticed paid more attention to me were a certain type of men. Then I got pregnant and the same men literally let doors shut in my face. You can’t always control what makes shallow people give you “positive” attention and personally I think it’s better to learn the lesson that you don’t actually need that kind of attention.

I wasn't even good looking!

I take this into account now when going to see the doctor, consultant or when going to get something sorted with various services- I go in, dressed like I am a professional, act like that, and I'm responded to much better. I started doing this after I popped in one time looking very scruffy as I was running somewhere else and was treated in a horrible way, looking down on me and not even sorting out my query. It's not so much looking anything other than together, and it's also the manner (like you know what you are talking about, like you might complain) that goes with it. It would be lovely if this weren't true, but in a very time pressured resource limited environment, it makes sense to make sure you are treated reasonably and in a timely manner, and disadvantaged people are not.

I think you’re absolutely right to do this if it gets you better treatment and I can easily imagine it does.
I often get treated like absolute dirt by doctors and in similar situations and I put a lot of it down to my accent (working class) and my appearance (definitely not professional looking, in fact, the polar opposite. I’m a sahm atm but long term unemployed due to disability).
The problem for me is that I can’t change or disguise any of that and really, I shouldn’t have to in order to be treated with respect but that’s how it is.
I know that this is why I’m treated so badly because when they find out I’m not on a medical card (entitled to free treatment) and am a private patient, the attitude usually changes dramatically. Even more so when they find out I have private health insurance.
The last time I visited the GP, I left in tears because of the way he spoke to me. He assumed I was just looking for sedatives from him, asked me sarcastically if I worked and then if my husband works. When I told him what my husband does, his face dropped and he tried to back track.
It’s fine for some people if they are able to change how they’re perceived in order to get better treatment but not everyone can do this.
It’s not always just a matter of sticking on some bb cream and lipstick or even losing weight. People being treated worse based on how they look is discrimination. It’s a fact of life but it’s still wrong.

At 5'4", someone could weigh nine and a half stone. If that is toned muscle, it would be size 8-10. That's slim - not skinny but not in any way chubby. But if they gained a stone, they would be in the overweight category of BMI and if they lost muscle and it was mainly fat, they could end up three dress sizes larger.

I see what you mean, although I'm not sure I would call 9.5 stone slim at as short as 5'4'',although it certainly isn't fat.

I think a lot depends on who you want to attract. Lifestyles and common interests lead to certain looks. Ever since I was young, I much preferred a scruffier man - beard, dreadlocks, definitely unkempt. I wouldn't know what to do with a well groomed man 🤣 clean and hygienic obviously but I've dated travellers, musicians, a carpenter and randomly a solicitor 🤣 I actually got engaged to the solicitor, but it was never right - he was nice enough but I never felt comfortable being myself. I grew my hair long and changed my style and completely lost myself. I've always had more male attention with cropped/shaved hair but maybe because we're like minded people. I've always veered toward the alternative but have worked in both IT and accountancy.
I really fancy Robert Peston. Intelligence and quirk.
Someone tag him for me 🤣

The last two times I have needed a GP, I have gone in looking like a bag lady. I had shingles and due to the placement and feeling unwell and in pain, I was wearing an old soft sweatshirt, no bra (and I am a large lady) because my trunk was so painful and old slouchy trousers, again for the pain. I wore crocs without socks because I couldn't bend forward enough to get socks on and had managed to wash but not shower. Both times I was treated with great respect and kindness. I am not saying that no doctor has ever misjudged a patient but I don't think its a universal issue. I do think that perhaps feeling well groomed and "dressed like a professional" can be a boost to confidence and therefore make some people feel more able to advocate for themselves.

Nonsense. I'm a size 16, never wear make-up, no manicures, short fuss-free hair and I wear whatever I want. I don't have beautiful features or good skin, I suppose my teeth are okay but they aren't white and my hair is sometimes frizzy. I've never been pretty or even attractive. I have also never experienced anyone treating me any differently to the way they treat others. Being friendly and pleasant is far more likely to elicit good treatment than the way you look.

I don’t know why people are saying “it’s about confidence” and “it was because you were depressed” as though this makes it better…do under-confident or depressed people not deserve decent treatment?
I suppose I’m what is considered conventionally good looking and I make an effort with my appearance, but I do notice that during periods when I’ve been depressed and lacking in confidence people have treated me badly, even though I’ve looked nice.
When I’m projecting confidence and assertiveness, even if it’s fake, it’s like a switch being flipped and I get treated so much better. It makes me feel like people are fickle and not to be trusted - it’s like the moment they sniff out vulnerability they automatically view you as being below them in the social hierarchy and will kick you when you’re down, because they think they can get away with it (despite all their fake virtue signalling about mental health).
And will only treat you well if they see you as their equal or above, and know that you’ll push back on any bad treatment. It actually makes me hate people.
Being slim and well groomed is a positive thing generally, but it’s not some magic ticket to happiness.

Sadly I think that some people ARE that shallow and will judge people because they are feeling depressed or shy, but it is eg easier to chat to people who chat back. I absolutely agree that clinicians and people who supply similar services absolutely should not dismiss people who struggle to advocate for themselves for whatever reason.

Of course depressed people deserve respect and good treatment but unfortunately that's not how the world operates, is it? People are merely observing their experiences of how the world works, not what is the most noble or moral thing or how the world OUGHT to work. How the world ought to work is not how it actually does, unfortunately.

Personally, I think it's deeply unfair that footballers earn hundreds of thousands of pounds per week when nurses or carers earn a pittance but that doesn't make it stop being true. It would be a lie for me to say premier footballers earn less than nurses. Same with confidence and attractiveness.

@godmum56Sure, but I’m talking about people who will be unnecessarily mean and cruel to someone, or about them behind their back, just because they’re not the most confident person or a bit awkward or depressed or whatever. I’ve seen it happen to others countless times and have experience it myself in the past. It’s not just about chatting or not chatting to someone, it’s how people’s whole attitude changes based on how confident you present as.

@fancyenterpriseYes, maybe I didn’t word it too well, I don’t mean that people shouldn’t say it . It was more the tone - that treating someone badly because of their looks is shallow and ridiculous, but if it’s because they’re depressed/unconfident etc then it’s understandable.

I have seen it too, yes some people are that shallow. Its also possible that someone who struggles socially or is suffering will notice and be more affected by such behaviour than someone who is feeling more confident and positive for whatever reason, and the mean and crule people are two faced shits.

Yes, maybe I didn’t word it too well, I don’t mean that people shouldn’t say it . It was more the tone - that treating someone badly because of their looks is shallow and ridiculous, but if it’s because they’re depressed/unconfident etc then it’s understandable

Ah ok I see what you mean! I think people are suggesting that it's actually inner confidence that makes people "attractive" in the first place rather than their objective physical appearance. I agree there is a difference between beauty and attractiveness.

I think people were trying to drill down into the essence of what actually makes someone attractive rather than suggesting its ok to treat someone poorly if they are depressed or have no confidence.