I’ve decided to wake up and realise that looks do matter in society, and I’m going to use that to my advantage

[PhoenixRisingHigher]

I was young, slim, dark haired, & reasonably attractive, it was all I had ever known so I thought how I was treated was normal life for everyone.
naturally out going too so that helped open a lot of doors

I then got ill, overweight, & went through serious bereavement , & gave up on looks entirely after grief & other troubles

hajned a stone around the covid era. I looked like a slob, & became not just invisible, but people treated me like I had a low IQ, I was a complete zero. I have in the last year lost the weight, fixed my hair, & started wearing nice clothes again, & instantly I am treated with respect & that my opinion matters.
for example people will smile at me and open door for me and basically treat me nicely

what shocked me was I’m basically the same person inside regardless of how I look
yet people really go treat you so differently

I don't blame society for this, its nature, but I absolutely without doubt understand how much beauty DOES matter, maybe not all the time in every circumstance, but for existing in society, it is important, & its part of getting ahead, investing in looks is just as important as investing in your career & your home.

I don't mind that I was ignored at my worse, quite frankly I am greatful I was ignored in that state because I hated how I looked & I wanted to be invisible, so it served a purpose. But however moral
someone wishes to be, looks do matter as a social species.

so now I’m gonna have to up my game and use it to my advantage
which I also find kinda sad too

but guess it is what it is

Hard agree and I am also on the same journey xx

Yes, it's a well known fact that looks do matter. Various studies have found that good looking people are more likely to be hired, receive more positive feedback and receive salaries of at least 15% higher than others. Part of it is the looks themselves, and part is because always being seen in a more positive light and having opportunities open up to you more easily than others gives you confidence.

What's most disgraceful is the poor service and treatment you receive when people consider you 'less than' because they judge how you look. (I found it happens in hospitals all the time.)

I wonder if children responding better to more attractive faces is nature or nurture? There was a very disturbing experiment where babies as young as 1 or 2 were asked to pick a doll from a range of dolls of different ethnicity/colour and every child picked the white doll, including the black children. I wonder at what age children start becoming conditioned in this way. It’s certainly much younger than I first thought.

I think you are talking at least as much about regaining the self confidence you were previously projecting.

Gaining a stone never ruined anyone's looks, but if you were literally dressing as if you just got out of bed and feeling down and ill, of course people will respond to tha

I feel the same @ExtraOnions. It's how we feel about ourselves that we project to other people and that affects how other people perceive us. For a long time (years and years) I was around at least 5.5 stones overweight.

At my worst I was another 2 stones even heavier than that, when I was pretty much immobilised while waiting for a knee op.

I have found people treat you the way you treat them for the most part. Even people in shops etc - the strangers you meet everywhere. A smile goes a long way!

I'm much slimmer now, but still about 1 -2 stones to lose. I've lost nearly 4 stone and it's lovely to get compliments, but I haven't perceived any difference in how others perceive me

It makes you feel.so much better on the inside when you're well turned out. That's how I feel anyway.

For me the confidence thing was (is) that I felt all the time that I had got hold of something that needed to be said and shared and that would improve patient care....make it actually better for patients and their relatives, give better value for cost, make it easier for staff. That I was not important but that the message and the change was. That I could articulate that message and get people to buy into it. I have no idea if I had "the confidence of the physically attractive" because I have no idea what this means or even if its a thing. I was only ever (still am) interested in what people thought of me in terms of could I get them to listen? could I get them on board?

I feel good about myself when I am wearing what I like to wear but that may not be other people's idea of "well turned out" as I have said, I have never used makeup, don't have manicures, don't follow fashion.

YANBU. I've yo-yo'd weightwise and I've always been more successful in getting jobs and gaining clients when I've been smaller and virtually no success at all job hunting or gaining clients when I was obese. It's been blatantly obvious. Same person underneath, but other people see something very different. Same with making friends and doing hobbies etc - when obese, virtually no one comes near, but when closer to a normal/average weight, far easier to make connections.

I don't care what people think of how I look. I'm clean, I don't smell. That's all I'm interested in doing. I don't shave or wear makeup. I don't style my hair. I'm overweight and I dress to be comfortable. And if people treat me differently than if I were more attractive, that's their problem.

I'm also successful in my career and have a fabulous loving husband who has seen me at my worst many times and still makes me feel like the most beautiful woman he's ever laid eyes on. We met right after I lost 100lbs via an eating disorder when I was still wearing makeup and shaving everything. He encouraged me to get treatment and I gained all the weight back because starving yourself isn't a viable weight loss method. He has loved me the same throughout. That was a huge transformative lesson for me that helped me towards loving who I am and not what I look like.

I truly feel sad for people who waste their time on their appearance for other people's benefit. If it's what you want for yourself then more power to you. But it's sad to let the shallowness and insecurities of other people drive your behavior in such a way. I think it turns you into someone who judges others in the same way. We project our insecurities onto others.

Its not just about beauty. No-one wanted to sit next to the dishevelled looking man on the bus today, i was happy to and he was fine.

I let myself go for a couple of years, put on 1.5 stone, didn't get my hair done, slobbed around in oversized jumpers and leggings, didn't bother with makeup. I FELT invisible. Whether that was the energy I gave off because I didn't feel good about myself or people did judge me on my appearance, I don't know for sure.
Got fed up of myself, decided to make more of an effort.

It wasn't some magical, botoxed, beautified glowup. I got my hair cut and styled, got my nails done (to be truthful, nails are the first thing I notice about a person, jagged, unkempt nails are awful in my opinion, costs nothing to keep them manicured yourself at home), cut out the crap in my diet and lost the weight, smartened up my wardrobe by using what was already in it and ditched the leggings. Through on some BB cream, mascara and lipstick if I was heading out and a spritz of perfume. BOOM, instantly felt better about myself. Like I was worth making an effort for, making the best of myself and showing myself some self love.

Did I notice a difference with other people? I have to say I did. Be that shallow or not, I did. The compliments were just a bonus and even if nobody noticed it would not have bothered me but it's how I felt when I looked in the mirror that made all the difference. I am worth making an effort for. If I can look better with minimal effort, why on earth would I not do that.

Completely agree with you @PhoenixRisingHigher

In my early career I got used to respect, at the time was fit and OK looking. Then motherhood, sleep deprivation and obesity gradually happened.

Over the last 18 months I’ve lost lots of weight, regained some tone and am dressing a little better (enjoying clothes again). As soon as weight came off the change attitude of some people at work was stark. One management bully (horrid to multiple people) is now even speaking to me nicely. Professional respect is returning as well. All because of weight loss and a minor change in clothes (same style just more colourful).

I’m exactly the same person (actually maybe not as good as before due to perimenopause) but am suddenly treated better. It is now obvious how much fat-ism impacted on daily working life.

I'm fucked then!

I shave my own head and wear no make up.

I get by on personality, a smile and an air of confidence.

I think a smile goes far further than a bit of lip gloss.

I don't even know what cc cream is 🤣

I think people are a bit missing the point when they say their husband loves them or their career is great, whatever their size. No one is saying looks are everything; they are not. Personality, confidence, charisma, knowledge and expertise, wealth and power all go into making some people have an easier, nicer or more emotionally fulfilling life. All things being equal, though, people who are perceived by others as being attractive do better across a wide range of measures. You can compensate against that, you can choose not to care, you can select a career in which you have an edge- it's just one of many factors which are incorporated into social judgements but it is one, and that's what many people seem to find difficult to accept. Class is another big one in the UK.

I don't find it difficult to accept. I do think though that ONLY changing the way you look and expecting that to magically make you more liked/successful and so on is not a goer. I do totally get that if the way you look makes you feel unhappy and lacking in confidence, then you are more likely to present better and feel happier.

what shocked me was I’m basically the same person inside regardless of how I look yet people really go treat you so differently

the benefit of self-love / self-care are two fold:

looking after yourself makes you feel better and increases self-esteem

someone who is well groomed and shows they make an effort comes across to others as someone with confidence and worth knowing.

Think of it in evolutionary terms, if you show yourself to be able to take care of yourself and a force to be reckoned with, people will take you seriously and mirrors who they aspire to be.

news flash: this has nothing to do with conventional beauty! I know lots of people who aren't classic beauties but they hold the room, people like being with them, they are interesting and engaging. And they all look the part.

I think fat people can be mega hot so I think that's a red herring

As someone who is confident but has been properly properly ugly, walking around not thinking about anything and being called ugly by randoms, I can tell you it makes a difference

Few people are genuinely ugly so don't appreciate the difference it makes

(Being older is also amazing because I'm now pretty good for my age 🤣)

I'm nearly 50, and my size has fluctuated from a size 10-12 to a size 16 over the years. I have obviously also gone from being young to reluctantly approaching middle age (although I do look young for my age - everyone thinks I am my grandsons mum).

I honestly have never noticed being treated differently by members of the public, people in a customer service role, friends, people I meet in a work capacity at all. But then regardless of my size and age, I still have high levels of self esteem and confidence, and I'm one of those people who easily talk to anyone.

People of all ages and genders talk to me and treat me with respect whether I am fat or thin, whether I leave the house in hiking gear or a pretty dress. Sure you get rude and dismissive people, but I always get the impression they are like that with everyone.

Actually, once in my life someone judged me when I was fat, making an assumption I wouldn't cope with a long hike. I was wearing well used proper hiking gear at the time, and I clearly looked like an experienced hiker, and I had two lean Goldies with me. I called her out on her assumptions and asked why she thought I wouldn't do a long walk when I surely must look like an experienced walker based on attire and dogs. Hopefully it was a lesson to her that helped her avoid judging others based on appearance in the future.

Its human instinct like you said. The same as how people like butterflies (generally) but hate spiders, people will fuss over a cute puppy or fluffy little dog, but a less appealing looking dog will sit for months waiting to be rehomed.
Obviously there are exceptions, but on the whole people make initial judgments based on appearance.

That's a great, and really interesting explanation- thank you !

I'm not convinced the physically attractive are more confident at all. Just look at all the beautiful young women who are terribly insecure and don't realise how beautiful they are.

I think I get what you mean. I became suddenly disabled almost 5 years ago to the day and it really changed my life from being the vibrant good-looking blonde having fun to the grey streaked near enough 24/7 pyjama wearer pushing 40 and looking like shite.

we’re animals - we might think we make rational decisions or behave rationally but we’d do well to remember that 9/10 times we are reacting on instinct built over millions of years of evolution. Regular features and a body shape that indicate you are healthy and might be able to bear children work for sexual attraction - but they also have bearings on decisions we make about the competence and success of the persons we are dealing with. Someone who looks like they look after themselves is going to command respect. If they like they’ve been successful they are going to be valued. No getting away from it!

I’ve noticed also that men and women who weren’t luminous beauties in their youth can suddenly look comparatively much more attractive than the others as they age if they’ve looked after themselves, the clothes, wellbeing and hair etc make them look more distinctive.

Some interesting comments in this thread.
What is attractive and gains respect is confidence and energy. I am slim but haven’t been in the past. I have no problem in saying that I’m not attractive- I’ve definitely improved with age but I’m not beauty. I am not ‘well groomed’ and mostly wear tracksuit bottoms. At work I wear fitted tees and flares/leggings so again, very basic.
i have never had a problem attracting relationships, respect or anything else but I am very self assured and comfortable with who I am. I think confidence is the magic ingredient tbh