I’ve decided to wake up and realise that looks do matter in society, and I’m going to use that to my advantage

[PhoenixRisingHigher]

I was young, slim, dark haired, & reasonably attractive, it was all I had ever known so I thought how I was treated was normal life for everyone.
naturally out going too so that helped open a lot of doors

I then got ill, overweight, & went through serious bereavement , & gave up on looks entirely after grief & other troubles

hajned a stone around the covid era. I looked like a slob, & became not just invisible, but people treated me like I had a low IQ, I was a complete zero. I have in the last year lost the weight, fixed my hair, & started wearing nice clothes again, & instantly I am treated with respect & that my opinion matters.
for example people will smile at me and open door for me and basically treat me nicely

what shocked me was I’m basically the same person inside regardless of how I look
yet people really go treat you so differently

I don't blame society for this, its nature, but I absolutely without doubt understand how much beauty DOES matter, maybe not all the time in every circumstance, but for existing in society, it is important, & its part of getting ahead, investing in looks is just as important as investing in your career & your home.

I don't mind that I was ignored at my worse, quite frankly I am greatful I was ignored in that state because I hated how I looked & I wanted to be invisible, so it served a purpose. But however moral
someone wishes to be, looks do matter as a social species.

so now I’m gonna have to up my game and use it to my advantage
which I also find kinda sad too

but guess it is what it is

I’ve never ‘done’ my nails in my life and people hold the door open for me.

I’ll hold the door for anyone regardless of size or what they’re wearing.

I think you’re incorrectly assuming it’s due to how you look rather than how you feel about yourself.

People do treat you differently depending on what they see, rather than what you are.

I got bullied a lot at school, mostly for my very wonky teeth. As soon as I got braces, people started treating me differently, and it was odd to have a majority of people being nice to me. I was surprised to actually have friends at sixth form. However... by then, I'd already learnt that the only people worth knowing were the ones who could look beyond my appearance and see that there was still a human being with my own thoughts and feelings behind all of that.

I have a job that a lot of people look down on, even though farm workers are necessary for caring for the land and animals, not to mention feeding people. Sometimes people do get sniffy with me for what I wear and being spattered with muck/iodine/other interesting substances, and not having my hair done... but what's the point? A lot also seem to assume that farm workers are stupid when, actually, we are quite philosophical, possibly as a result of having spent time on our own.

When I go out in jeans and a t-shirt, or smart farm clothes, people don't really bat an eyelid. When I go out in a smart coat, or a skirt, people tend to treat me with a lot more respect, smile and open doors for me...

So, yes, it does make a difference, but I still stand by the thought that the only people worth knowing are those who can look past what's on the outside to see the real person underneath.

I’m 68 so my good looking days are long behind me. But I dress neatly, have reasonably groomed hair, minimal make up but find people smile, open doors, engage in conversation and generally value what I say. I think that’s because I am polite , positive, interested and smiley. People respond to your attitude and if you’re giving off good vibes, you get them back. You can be drop dead gorgeous but if you’re giving off snooty and couldn’t care less, you’ll get attitude back.

Do you only get positive attention from men? When I was younger and felt I “looked good” I only get negative attention from women.

@PhoenixRisingHigher part of this though will be the confidence you give off because you feel good about yourself, people find confidence attractive too

People have told me for years to take advantage of my looks.

Multiple women have told me to use it before I lose it but I have no idea what they mean.

I assume they mean meet a rich man and be sorted that way - but I have no intention on doing that and I never want to get married.

I personality treat everyone with kindness, regardless of what they look like.
I can be in awe of a very good looking man or woman but I wouldn’t give them special treatment.

But so what, though? Why would it matter to you how someone you bump into at the shops regards you that you seem to feel committed to some kind of permanent makeover? Why is a random encounter being dignified with the title of 'Society'?

For comparison, I am plain, middle-aged and not at all well-groomed, but I've never had the remotest issue with 'mistreatment'. If you are a confident individual who isn't projecting low self-esteem and who expects a normal degree of consideration, you will generally get it.

It's so true, the same has happened to me and it's sad really

MN is the only place on earth where people pretend they don’t judge on appearances, and it’s considered shallow and vain to take an interest in your appearance.

Look out at a crowd of members of the public and you'll typically see a sea of grey/black/navy clothes, dun coloured heads, slightly overweight bodies and unremarkable features.
It stands to reason that if you have great hair, a nice figure, and wear lovely clothes, you're going to stand out from the crowd and feel more visible, because you will be. Its not a great secret weapon for better treatment. Its something anyone can do if they choose.

I agree. I would hold a door open and be pleasant to anyone. I wouldn’t check to see if they had nice nails or a ‘pop’ of blusher on their face. Or whether they had a big arse. And anyone who discriminates isn’t worth making the effort for.

I think a lot of what you perceive to be about looks more accurately is a combination of misogyny and classism.

a woman who opts out of the patriarchy is suspected of rocking the boat, at the very least, for those many who prefer for whatever reason not to see that structure.

a woman who doesn’t stick to the class-coded rules of ‘taste’ (essentially a bourgeois construct to sort who belongs where) gets treated as a pleb.

(the upper class has its own codes)

I agree. I think it's a bit shallow to judge people on their looks but then find myself doing it, If a beautifully groomed or stylish person comes into the room, they bring an energy and positivity with them - they care about themselves, have a degree of confidence and also care about your opinion of them - they want to give you their best (the subconscious implication - whether true or not - is: they are less needy - you don't have to support them) Whereas when someone comes into a room overweight and in slobby clothes some part of me thinks - they have problems, they need someone else to care for them as they clearly don't care for themselves, nor do they care what impression they give, and that energy is draining to others. I have been both. These days I am making more effort to wear interesting clothes and put together proper outfits not just chuck on whatever is clean, comfortable and fits.

For the first time in a long time a certain friend complimented my outfit yesterday.

I completely agreed. It can be very subtle differences in attitudes towards you, but over the course of a day they really add up. Over a week, month, year- the difference is a lot!
I’ve gone through the same stages as you. I’m currently working back to my improved self and the difference is becoming more noticeable. It’s sad but true 🤷🏼‍♀️

That is exactly it to a t !

Could’ve written this exact post myself!

If people care that much about look that i have to change me it is not worth changing to me, I accept people for who they are and expect the same in return so I do zero on my looks

If anyone has opinion that is on them, I dont need to change to give myself good self esteem, I cant complain about it and then add to it people just have to take me as they find me

I agree it really is sad
it makes you think well I’m still the same person regardless of how I dress and appear

And it’s honestly nothing to do with how I feel and what I’m projecting

because im not swapped in grief anymore
but I could go out today not lookig. My best and it will be beet different to how it was yesterday when I did my hair and wore. NIce clothes etc

Even drs and at hospital etc they treat you better and with more respect

You’re right, op. A better conclusion though might be to remind yourself not to make the same mistake when dealing with others.

I gained weight having dc and when I lost it noticed the same thing. It’s remarkable how resistant people can be to the idea though and will tell you that it’s your confidence people are reacting to rather than your looks (implication- discrimination against fat people doesn’t exist because it’s actually discrimination against the unconfident, so it’s the fat person’s fault for not constantly channeling their inner Lisa Reilly- which is patronising nonsense).

This Is an interesting take, can you tell me more about it your thoughts on this ?

Kinda makes me feel like I was told a crock of shit growing up
about how looks don’t matter etc

I actually wish someone was smart enough to tell me the facts
as I would have woken up earlier

OP, everyone will tell you this doesn't matter and it's what's inside that counts, and in very close relationships like close family and with partners and good friends, that's absolutely the case.

If you want an easier life, though, when out and about in the world, in shops, in restaurants, when you walk into an event, when you are at the supermarket, when you need someone in the Post Office to do you a favour, when you get pulled over by the police, when you'd like to make social connections in your immediate surroundings, then yes, being at least middle of the road standardly attractive helps a lot.

I don't know why people are in denial about this because all the research shows this is hugely advantageous. This is especially so for women who are often not valued in society unless they are of moderate attractiveness, which is highly sexist and unfair but also true.

I don't think that means you should devote yourself to looking attractive. Don't if you don't want to. You can also find better friendship groups or places where you are valued not on your looks, like a career in which this is irrelevant or where you have a skill which is highly valued and so your looks don't matter.

I have made this deal with the devil that I find life much easier and feel better about myself internally if I have a minimum level of social presentation going on- so nice, stylish clothes, some make-up when at work, and generally look polished, well-cared for and open and happy. I am not interested in surgery or anything invasive, or even Botox. I just want to look like a nice version of my natural self. It works to make life go smoother in smaller ways. I don't think it's relevant to my close relationships.

Others might derive satisfaction from not giving a shit. There isn't a right way to deal with this, but denying that being a moderate level of attractiveness doesn't facilitate life is being a bit silly IMO. This holds as you age.

OP, everyone will tell you this doesn't matter and it's what's inside that counts, and in very close relationships like close family and with partners and good friends, that's absolutely the case. If you want an easier life, though, when out and about in the world, in shops, in restaurants, when you walk into an event, when you are at the supermarket, when you need someone in the Post Office to do you a favour, when you get pulled over by the police, when you'd like to make social connections in your immediate surroundings, then yes, being at least middle of the road standardly attractive helps a lot.

Agree- there are literal research studies on this, that attractive people who have committed crimes get lighter sentences. It's well documented that life is easier for you if you are attractive. I am not saying this is how is should be, by any means. But it certainly is how it IS.