To think my DD should go to Edinburgh Uni instead of Kent?

[Girlypops154]

My DD has been accepted to Edinburgh to study Astrophysics and she has also been accepted to Kent University. We live outside of London and she says wants to be closer to home but I say she should go to Scotland because it’s a better university (she has also been accepted to St Andrews but we prefer Edinburgh). We are in a blessed position that we can afford the extra year up there. How do I get to change her mind as she has her mind now set on Kent but I really think going to an RG would be far better. She’s now getting annoyed at me because I keep insisting on Edinburgh. She has also been accepted to Durham and Aberystwyth but neither of them have got back to us yet. Any advice or am I being unreasonable? Thank you.

OP, whilst I agree that it's a much better experience for a student to be a fair distance from home, this isn't your decision to make.
There is a lot of "we" and "us" in your post, but it actually doesn't involve you at all - the universities get back to the student and the student makes his or her own choice.

There are so many students who struggle with university and annually there are tragedies. It is important that your DD is allowed to make her own choice - with some guidance of course - but in the end it is her choices. Better that she should make her own assessment of her needs - she understands herself better than you do. The pastoral care in some universities is awful and this matters a lot.

My 3 AC all went to university, one to a RG - their outcomes have been similar, and the pastoral care in the RG university left something to be desired.

Trust me it won’t. A 1st or 2:1 from Kent will get an MSc offer from pretty much any UK uni for Physics/Physics adjacent course. That then gets to you a position where you’re able to apply for PhDs. Same route as someone who did their UG at Durham for example. Physics students at all levels and specialities are in short supply!

I think ultimately it’s up to her.

Is she past the point where she can make more applications? Can she apply to an RG University nearer to home to tick both boxes?

I do not thinknthis idea that all RG unis are better is true. Universities should be judged on a whole range of things and every one is different.

I rejected a top uni in London to go to UWE (Bristol) to be closer to home - went home every weekend and worked in local pub. Loved it. Don't regret it but Bristol had a great social life. It was not the better uni of the 2 and the year after I left (down to budget cuts) they were not able to show at Graduate fashion week in London which is where I was scouted for my first job.
Anyway, despite not going to a great uni I've still had a brilliant career. And I did move to London after uni when I felt ready.

It's all very well saying RG universities are stronger in research but that's really only relevant if those doing that cutting-edge research are involved in giving lectures or taking tutorials, which is often not the case for teenage under-graduates. You don't benefit simply by being in proximity to them.

Her motivation for Kent appears to be that its nearer home and feels like a safer option. I've no clue about which course is better, but as another way to think about it -

How well does she know Edinburgh (or her other options?). Could you arrange a weekend visit - sleeper train there, or a flight? Committing to 4 years somewhere she's never been / barely remembers is going to be off-putting.

Could she improve her confidence or stretch her wings a bit, to make that a smaller factor?

Agree with the comments on the financial stability of Kent, I’d be very concerned. Also, where in London do you live? If you’re near City or Heathrow there are multiple very quick flights daily from Edinburgh, so in reality she could be at home just as quickly as from Kent so “closer to home” doesn’t really apply.

My son went to Edinburgh - lovely Uni. We live about 20 minutes away and go there often for meals out etc. It's a wonderful city.

People saying Scotland is cold are being ridiculous. It's a few degrees at most. Our summers are HOT.

Degree matters though-my dc got a first in Astrophysics from a small university and then did research masters in one of the top 5. Funny, they bombed their a levels and did extra foundation year but a levels have not mattered at all career wise. A masters distinction did though.

It has got to be her choice. I went to a local university. I didn't go to a top university but it felt like a better fit. It was easy to get help when i had a problem. I could also go home on a weekend if i wanted. I have now moved further away from my family home.

@thing47 In astrophysics it is looked at for ranking though. @Mischance The subject rankings at CUG take lots of things into account. It’s just a fact that in this subject RG plus the top non RG (St Andrews) are best. Although dd didn’t do stem at uni, her lecturers were all experts in their field of academic work. They all had extensive research. This is what academia is. It’s not purely vocational where you are taught a job.

And a 1st from Kent would still have led to the same pathway… Agree a distinction at Masters is important. Far more so than where the BSc came from.

If you get a distinction in your Masters from a world-leading university, no one is going to give a monkey's where you did your under-graduate. That is also a fact.

Not in STEM, at any rate. I don't claim to know anything about law.

If by 'best', you mean highest ranked in league tables, sure. But as @titchy says, that is not the sole route into higher degrees. Niece and goddaughter studied first degrees at much lower ranked universities than Kent but now have PhDs from RG universities and interesting research jobs in the STEM field.

I have a dd in year 13, she was really keen on a far away university, then last week she said it all started feeling real rather than hypothetical and she’s now keen on a university that’s very close to home.

Now the far away one hasn’t made an offer yet, so I’m advising to sit tight until they do. I’m also saying we should go to offer holders days before making a firm decision. I think right now they are realising that exams are coming up fast and it’s not long until they actually have to go.

It’s not necessarily a much better experience. I agree that moving away from home is a good thing- but certainly for my dd 150 rather than 450 miles would have been infinitely better.

Yes-my ds did his masters at Manchester and is working in a field where the maths is so useful. His UG was at a much smaller university and he had to do a foundation year there because his a levels were poor. I’ll never forget sitting in the car on a level results day and seeing his disappointment and upset especially when his friends had all done well. But he called his uni which had rejected him and they agreed a foundation year. It was the making of him-he got his confidence and the enjoyed the nurturing and pastoral care from a smaller university. Given his experience, I was so proud of him with his Research masters result. I think a pp said that a levels were a better predictor of success than degree. Maybe, but sometimes, you can beat the stats.

Unless you want no/low contact in the future I'd stop living through her with the "us" language. It's not your degree, there are multiple downsides to Edinburgh and even if there weren't it's not your degree.

@thing47 I’m assuming your DD didn’t apply to Durham or St Andrews’s or Edinburgh and get a place. It’s easy to advocate for universities ranked in the 40s for the subject if you are not turning down 2 in the top 10 and 1 ranked at 15. Would your DD truly have done this and gone local instead? I think probably not.

Thanks for all your feedback. DD has decided to go to Edinburgh after careful consideration. She says that she was just nervous so far away but after staying in Edinburgh for the weekend she thinks she’ll like it. To all of those saying I am living vicariously through my DD I think you might be slightly right (I never got to go university myself due to parental pressure) and maybe I do need to take a step back.🙏

@Girlypops154 Are you not waiting for Durham? It’s nearer than Edinburgh - but a different experience!

Kent is a poor excuse for a uni, so she should definitely go Edinburgh. The way the graduate market is now, a Kent degree isn't worth much, so maybe you strongly advise her.

I know this poster is getting lambasted for being controlling but I actually completely agree with this mentality. It is a massive investment for parents and I would only pay it if I felt sensible choices were being made.

She didn't, though Durham wouldn't have been her cup of tea and I wouldn't have been keen on her being in Scotland. She had offers from Manchester and Southampton but preferred where she chose. She wasn't local for her first degree.

Please note, I wasn't advocating for lower ranked universities, merely pointing out that attending one doesn't preclude getting post-graduate qualifications as some PP appear to be suggesting, not even from a world-leading one.