In not pursuing a diagnosis for five year old?

[woodenwalls]

May be a controversial one.

DS is five and as he gets older I do think there’s possibly some SEN there. He is very reactive: loses his temper easily, screams an shouts (had a lot of that this holiday) - as a toddler his tantrums were awful, he’d claw at my face, pull my hair … I found him really difficult and I wonder if maybe some of that’s affecting us still. I can’t get him to listen; I’ve really made an effort with strategies that promise they work and they don’t 😩

OTOH, nursery didn’t flag anything, neither have school. I’m reluctant to go to the GP; dh wouldn’t be on board and it doesn’t seem like support is very forthcoming anyway. I guess what I’m asking is AIBU to just … leave it, and struggle on?

😵

70% of the prison population have undiagnosed ND
Huge increase in children refusing schools due to SEND difficulties
Umdiagnosed ADHD costs the U.K. £73m per year.
To say nothing of the mental health issues it brings.
It gets worse as they get older.

You need to intervene asap and get an assessment.

I wouldn't leave it. It's not a label, it's an explanation. Apart from anything when you have a child diagnosed you then start to understand how neuro divergence is genetic and if your child is, you and/or their dad almost certainly are!
There are a number of kids in the school where I am a TA who aren't diagnosed and are muddling along. The further they go up the school the go, on the whole, the less they are coping.

Yes sorry I should have been clearer. I work in education as a SN 1-1. My job is reliant on the funding schools received for children who have been assessed and diagnosed. That is absolutely not to say that we don’t put support in for children who haven’t, we absolutely do. However, not all schools are the same as you say and I feel very lucky that our school is so inclusive and goes
the extra mile. So many don’t or indeed can’t.

The OP is recognising there IS a problem and that in itself is important and should be supported.

She doesn't know what the solution is and doesn't want to go through a sausage factory diagnosis process - which frankly ISN'T the solution anyway - it may open pathways to solutions but it's not the only way to find those pathways to solutions.

Strategies for managing ADHD are just useful strategies that can benefit NT people too. They are worth looking at generally for everyone for this reason.

Likewise poor communication techniques can found in NT people too - and strategies used for ND can be helpful.

These don't require a diagnosis.

Making school away of problems at home generally is useful. School can then be aware of the pastoral issues that might manifest in class. People often don't do this when they should out of embarrassment or shame. But a teacher generally will respect parents who say 'help' or 'what can I do to make this better for my child's because they are on team child and understand harmony at home equals happier and better performing children all round. They know you are an engaged parent who is easier to approach about any potential problems in future too. They don't like parents who are in denial or don't care or don't want to engage.

There's a stigma about 'failing' as a parent or being seen to be. The reality is you have only failed if you don't try and improve things or pretend there's no problem until it's hit an irreversible crisis point.

Do whatever you can as early as you can to prevent that crisis.

If you have communication issue and personality clashes at age 5, be proactive cos by age 14 they will be a lot worse. Even if your child isn't ND.

One thing I would say here is the role of your DH. Are you the bad guy and he's always the good guy - instead of framing this as potentially you being the bad parent thinks about how you aren't working together and how it could be HIM undermining you by turning a blind eye to behaviour that shouldn't be ignored and thus your son has learnt bad habits and doesn't understand why it's okay with Daddy but not with Mummy and therefore gets upset because he's confused. Because you are the one who says no you get the brunt of it - even though you are the one parenting appropriately whilst your DH abdicates responsibility for parenting and delegates it all to you.

Unless you work with a team all on the same page - both parents AND school you may well have problems merely from that.

AuDHD DD can clash awfully with AuDHD DH. They are rigid in quite similar ways.

Oh yes. There are two schools in my town and one does very little unless forced and the school my daughter goes to that has high levels of SEN and lots of resources so can put things in place earlier. They have sought out extra funding for example for sensory rooms and plenty of TAs to provide support whilst waiting for assessments.

In my experience you have to have some idea of what you're looking at as a parent, in order to know what kind of assessment to seek, though.

I mean, it would be ideal if (like in other developed countries), a paediatrician saw your child annually and could.give you pointers, but that's not what we've got in the UK.

For me the lockdown of spring and summer 2020 was crucial because I could observe DD closely and her struggles accessing education in a way that I couldn't normally.

Sometimes bad / reactive behaviour can be down to a parent letting a child get away with murder, or having a bad home life. I think YABU for automatically jumping to SEN conclusions.

You need to look at your parenting first and foremost. Your school could offer support with this, ours are always sending out emails with local classes advertised to help parents with challenging children. They would also be able to give you any insights into what they are like at school in more detail.

I dont mean to sound judgemental - some kids are bloody hard work compared to others! So you could just need some tactics to help you.

This is all very area dependent. There was absolutely no parenting advice or classes offered in our area (unless you already knew what was up with your child such as ADHD) and when years later we finally did get referred, the classes were only ever offered during the day so we couldn't go as we were at work.

Tbh lucky we kept our jobs as having a child with complex SEN is extremely expensive!

Do you know who was in all of my parenting classes? School staff struggling with their own children. I was the only person not working in education in those waste of time sessions. All of us had been ignored for years and been parenting at a top level for a long time.

The only good thing that came out of it was that they told me to apply for DLA (which I had dismissed) and filled out some of the paperwork for me.

The most useful advice we got was from an NVR counsellor. Both he and his brother were ND and he freely admitted that their parents, a senior teacher and a social worker, had struggled hugely with them as children!

I am guessing this is just a thinly veiled "too many people being diagnosed with ND" thread.

Incredibly unreasonable yes. You can’t expect a neurodivergent child to survive in a neurotypical world without huge adjustments. Adjustments are only possible with a diagnosis, EHCP and parents that fight tooth and nail 24/7 for support. If you don’t do this, you’ll likely have a teenager in burnout, which can take many forms including self harm and worse. Start now.

Report it then.

I have an ASD child, as most people answering here so, but I'm not going to project from my own experiences. Its interesting that you don't mention any concerns or traits other than the temper. I know a temper can be a sign of ND and struggling, but there are a lot of ways kids can struggle and lash out - bullying, speech delay, poor sleep, not enough exercise, low level pain, I've known one child turn out to be coeliac and expressing stomach pain as anger...

Instead of jumping to SENs, I'd try to spot patterns, times of day, triggers, good days, sleep, diet etc. Even if you go for a diagnosis, all information is valuable. However, I wouldn't jump to this as the only option and risk missing something else while you wait.

Good luck

Start by talking to school, What's he like there? I had school pursuing a diagnosis for DS when he was 6, paediatrician disagreed with what they wanted. My ds has many quirks but isn't neuro diverse. Moved him to independent school and he thrived, he wasn't ticking any of the boxes for neurodiversity and the paediatrician agreed with me that he was way ahead of those in the same age group so needed a different style which school wasn't prepared to offer as an adjustment. But, something isn't quite right if he's always having terrible meltdowns just with you and something you can definitely seek advice about.

Talk to his teacher first. See if his teacher has noticed anything and what school are doing to support him if she/he has. If they really haven't noticed anything, then talk about how they manage him in school and think about how your parenting or things at home, may be the cause of these problems. Please don't just leave it though, as if there is something there, the gap between him and his peers is likely to increase as he gets older without support.

What consequences do you currently have in place for your son?
Bad behaviour and tantrums alone are not an indicator of SEN

Honestly none because it exacerbates behaviour so much. He loses it, screaming and shouting and you can’t get through to him.

I guess we did this. It became fairly obvious at home from 4/5 that my DS was pretty innattentive and struggled with organisation and maintaining personal hygiene. He was absolutely thriving at school though, ahead in everything and reading before 5. We didn't have any behaviour issues at home because my brain is very similar to his and we muddle through together.

All this changed when he hit p4, he would go days at school without doing any work and quickly dropped to the bottom groups and doing work he had done in p2. He required someone sitting over him at all times and prompting him which is obviously unsustainable in a class of 30+ kids. He felt guilty about missing work but just couldn't motivate himself to put pen to paper. This has continued into P5 until he moved to a mixed ASN/mainstream school and after a few weeks his teacher met me and began the referral. We have worked hard at home and putting things in place at school to support his learning to keep him working at pace and currently on a waiting list. I

If im honest I dont really regret not pushing for referral at 5. He didn't really meet criteria because he wasnt experiencing problems in both settings and my trust isn't keen for assessing before 7 unless there are extreme behaviours which my DS didn't have. However I can see how a diagnosis now would support his teacher.

From what I’ve understood he struggles to communicate, as in he can’t explain himself and can’t find the right vocabulary so makes up words and struggles with emotional regulation. There is very few examples of his behaviour on this thread but I think he needs to be refered to SaLT and/or Language and Communication team. What you have said raises flags for DLD and there is a lot of support for this which makes a really difference if given in childhood.

The OP or other posters?

Take him to your GP or paediatrician and tell them your concerns. I have both a 5 and 15 year old boys with adhd and autism. They were both diagnosed the same year. It would have made a massive difference for the 15 year old if he had been diagnosed earlier.
Once you know if your child has or hasn't adhd or autism you can go from there with what may be needed to help you cope.
Both my boys now get IEPs (individual education plans) at school and this makes a big difference. Only the 15 year old is medicated.

My son has been under a combination of neonatology/paediatrics/children’s services since the day he was born and yet it still took nine and a half years to get his autism diagnosis. Two of those years were wasted by the first school he attended bizarrely sabotaging all our attempts at diagnosis. If you have any concerns at all, OP, do talk to the school and your GP as a first step.

The timeline of getting diagnosed and putting an EHCP in place takes years. If for example you decide when he’s 7 that it’s time he had some support you are probably looking for this to be put in place when he’s 9/10 which is hugely significant for a child. The appropriate amount of educational support depends on the evidence they have from diagnosis and medical reports. If you sit on it you may find you have left things too late.