To think Think 25 is ridiculous and sexist?!

[enkelt2]

Look, this is obviously an emotional post, just a rant really.

Just wanted to get some booze at Tesco at NYE. Got ID'd, didn't have ID (ID on my phone only). So went to off licence instead.

I'm 33 soon and consistently get ID'd. People think it's a compliment and friends even congratulate me for looking young.

A full-grown woman needing permission to spend her own money is absolutely not flattering.

I'd be interested to see if women get ID'd way more than men--I bet they do. I bet it's about 75-25 women-men (who are over 18) who get ID'd.

It's women themselves who like to look young/succumb to the pressure of needing to look young. So we've created this environment where people can't tell your age. And so when they do look young they are restricted from spending their own money. Do you see what I mean? The society punishes women either way: you either choose to look your age, or give up your independence. I've never tried to look young; it's probably a genetic thing.

It's not just alcohol obviously, I got ID'd for paracetamol at Waitrose when I had a cold.

Yeah yeah, I get it, 'Why don't you just bring your ID all the time?' Look, that's not the point. The point is women already cannot live as carefree as men in so many areas of life. Dealing with period, dealing with pain, dealing with having less physical force. This is just one more thing.

It's a covertly sexist policy.

That's all, have a wonderful new year.

And they’re drinking anyway. So just stick to carding people who LOOK under 18 and most people are happy.

Wait until you get into your 40s. I've been to bars with younger colleagues who got IDd and when I've asked if they want to see mine they say "nah, you're alright" 🤣

I don't think women get ID-ed more than men so I don't think this is a feminist issue, sorry OP.

Gives them one more job surely, for the many people who are indisputably over 25?

This! I saw 3 males ID’ed in a bar just yesterday.

See, I think this is horrible that they are being recorded and checked up on over every little thing. And yes, all the people are along to say YABU, the cashier just wants to keep their job. True, but not the point. The point is that someone who's over a decade into being allowed to buy alcohol can't because shop staff are (not unreasonably) paranoid. Think 25 I thought was about being able to say 'You sold this 17 y o alcohol, and you claim you thought they were in their 20s'. But it's now meaning you sold alcohol to someone who might have looked like they were 24.

It's not the staff, it's the rules and the implementation from the top that we're fed up with.

Your DS may have been buying it just for himself but because DD was with him the shop judges it as a potential proxy sale ie: that your DD may have been drinking it too even though she couldn’t prove she was old enough to. This applies not just to alcohol but to any restricted product including ibuprofen, paracetamol, lottery tickets, scratch cards and of course alcohol. The shop gets into trouble if they can prove or suspect proxy sale too but approve the sale anyway.

It’s not “the rules” it’s the law.

Fine. My issue is with the law/the way the law has been interpreted. Doesn't change the substance of my post.

Although googling suggests it's not the law

"Whilst the Challenge 25 policy is not mandatory or a legal requirement, for responsible licensees it can be a sensible way to meet this statutory “proof of age” condition. It can also prove to be an effective way of preventing underage sales."

www.lawble.co.uk/challenge-25/#elementor-toc__heading-anchor-0

Or when you have a senior railcard and they don't need to look at it 😁

My DD age 32 and my youngest, DS age 21 are often asked for ID.

The way I see it is that this law is in place to protect kids from harm. Recreational smoking, drinking, gambling that can turn in to longterm addiction. There’s a huge cost to society, not just monetary. Kids look older than they used to, and this needs to be enforced somehow. Telling shop owners to just check clearly isn’t enough. I can’t agree with OP that the law is sexist though, you may sometimes pin that down to an individual as they’re asked to use their own judgement. Ultimately just carry ID. It’s really not the end of the world.

“you either choose to look your age, or give up your independence”

😂😂😂

I get it’s annoying, but I had a Christmas job in M&S as a teenager and people older than you, just look older. It’s hard for an 18 year old to distinguish a 33 year old from 25, because they just all look “older than me”! Also, media distorts age by constantly have actors playing down.

My husband is late 30s and still gets ID’d for paracetamol and scissors! He’s just baby faced and possibly could pass for 17, but not 15!

In my teenage days, I did ID a 40 year old woman who just looked fantastic for her age! The interaction went:
”Are you joking?” 😤
😬 (realising my mistake)
”I’m 40 years old.” 😡
😬 (the law, than at least, was once you ask you can’t sell without ID!) “I’ll call my manager”
I explained to the manager that I had asked and couldn’t complete the transaction legally without the ID, so he just completed the transaction without asking.

I served her again and she actually found it funny with some distance, thanked me and told me her skincare routine! 😂

Also, you are more likely to be ID’d on self-service checkouts as they usually put the younger staff there and they are working very quickly and haven’t already sized you and your purchase up the way they would have the chance at the real checkouts.

It is very hard to tell people's ages nowadays. Makeup, fashion, cosmetic treatments not just for women but for some men as well, make such a difference. Some younger teenagers with clever makeup and clothing could pass for much older than their real age.
If people who look youngish made a point of carrying their ID and producing it without fuss, the problem would disappear and children would be safe from drinking dangerous amounts of booze.

Apologies. Always the first to admit l have something wrong. I stand corrected.

Some people take longer to "grow into" their faces than others. I think there's a significant minority of the population, maybe as much as 20% (off the top of my head) that in their early to mid-30s can easily look 1/2 their age. I posted earlier that my DS 31, without a beard looks about 16, every now and again he'll shave, realise how baby-faced he looks and grows it back.

It doesn't seem to happen so much after 40ish, I know a few 36 year olds that could pass for 18 but no 44 year olds that could pass for 22, or even 25/26.

I'm genuinely surprised how much this is retailers running scared! I guess it's still about keeping your alcohol license by proving you take it seriously. I just can't help remembering my friend being embarrassed as IDing a 25 year old and how she was embarrassed. How things have changed. Even though the law is still 18. TBH I'm rubbish at ages but never did a job where I was IDing people.

It used to be 21. I agree it's ridiculous, but it's also not easy to work out how old someone is.

The rules are ridiculous but they were recently reviewed and the government didn't make any changes to them. The proxy sale rule needs review and it's also ridiculous that someone could lose their job for thinking a 24 year old looked 25. It should not be objective. I could easily think an 18 year old is 16 and someone else might think they look 20.

Anyway maybe it's one of those areas where AI could actually be useful and take most of the responsibility from the worker

The most ridiculous story I heard on the proxy sale side was the father who wasn't able to buy paracetamol because his 19 year old daughter was with him and didn't have ID! How do you buy Calpol, then?

Edited: I used "ridiculous" far too many times in that post ;)

All of this hand-wringing could be easily solved by having a national identity card, just like nearly every other civilised country of Earth.

My son is 30 and looks about 16 when he's clean shaven. My daughter is 32 and has only recently stopped being asked for ID.

On the plus side, youre unlikely to be sent to the front line in a war

I do this every day, I don’t ID women more than men, I ID anyone who looked under 25, it’s my job - which if I fail to do I can receive a fine and face disciplinary from my employer, it’s really not a conspiracy or that deep

Let me guess OP. You are small and petite?

I agree with you, it's indirect sexism but I think that Think 25 is a good idea.

Large males aren't challenged in the same way even if they look young, because shop assistants find it easier to challenge middle age women as they are less likely to kick off. That's the bottom line. But if you are on minimum wage, why would you challenge? It's not worth the stress in most cases.

The last time I got IDed I was 35. I got pregnant at 36 and then had a small child with me for the next five years. By mid 40s the wrinkles have eventually given my age away.

The IDing won't last much longer.

I massively disagree with ID cards even though it's stopped me getting this hassle for years.

This.

Simple really.