Embarrassed to be English

[Traballi]

Got ancestry results back recently and apparently I'm 98% English, tiny bit of Irish but not even Scottish or Welsh. It wasn't a surprise as already looked into family history and been here for centuries.

I'm actually embarrassed of my English lineage to be honest. What's there to be proud of with our appalling history of colonialism and more recent dallyings with the far right and flag shagging?

I see the British flag up where I live and I honestly cringe. I'm also married to someone who is from a country we have a history of conflict with too so that doesnt help although DH doesnt hate us excessively (won't name country in case outing but with our history of wars/ conflict/ invasion, it could be dozens of places lets be frank)

I guess I've had a different perspective on Englishness over many years through the people I know from overseas and I speak other languages too. I also went to a Catholic school (in England) which taught us about slavery and what happened in Northern Ireland. None of which was nice about the English (teacher was Irish). I'm grateful for these perspectives though as I wouldn't want to be brainwashed into being a blind patriot.

I have friends with strong Irish and Welsh roots and they have a real sense of identity to hold onto with it, ancestral languages that they're interested in and a feeling a pride.

If you're English, it's hard to feel like that unless you're in Tommy or Nige's crew, which makes me even less inclined towards patriotism tbh.

Does anyone else feel like this? It's a bit sad really. I'd love to at least be half something else to cling to that identity instead and ignore the English but.

Luckily my DC is only half English and has two other nationalities through DH, and is being brought up in Wales so will probably feel more Welsh. I'm also obtaining a passport from another country through DH soon and I'll be using that for all overseas travel as soon as I can so I can appear to be from there instead.

AiBU or do others feel like this? Being English just isn't cool.

I think you should be proud. Aware of past failings maybe but all cultures have those.
we have so many good things, we are a generous nation, often giving more to international crises (individually) than other countries. We are creative, we’re diverse, we have social structure and order that works. An amazing legal system (historically though sadly an under funded shambles just now but the principles are sound)
We really need to stop all this shame and have a more positive view of our country and its future

“But I want to be oppressed!”stamps foot

Pretty much every country in the world has a history they should not be proud of. More than half the countries in the world today still don't have a current situation to be proud of either. You are talking utter gonads unless you are suggesting that every person in every country should be ashamed of their roots.

Add to this, it is history. I and you are not responsible for our country's history. Today we live in one of the most tolerant and democratic countries in the world. Educate yourself on what goes on elsewhere because right now this thread makes you look pretty stupid.

Ah, I get it now. You’re just uneducated.
You’re allowed to be proud to be English and not be right wing. I think you’re confusing patriotism with nationalism.

Not really worth getting het up over it, OP

Yes I see your point. I've probably watched too many depressing history documentaries lately that just talked about the negative

So many people do

I’ve just spent a beautiful week in the Lake District- it was glorious. I’m back home now planning our New Year’s Eve party with our neighbours. It will be a great night as they are really fun. I’m grateful I live in a country where I have this beauty, safety and freedom. I don’t feel ashamed over something I had no control over. I’ve never come across anyone that thinks I should act ashamed either..

I suppose it boils down to mind set and and who you spend time with

YABU to equate the extreme right wing bs being put about right now with being English. They dont, and will never, speak for me, and I am a similar proportion of English to me.

YABVU to only be focusing on the negative aspects of English history. Its kind of the thing at the moment, and certainly the jingoism and self satisfaction of the past needed to be challenged. And there are things which we should be ashamed of. But there are many things to be proud of. I was once, when studying overseas, being attacked by some people about being English when an Indian student spoke up and said how fond many Indians are of England and the English and how they always said that everything that worked was built by the English. In the US, a lot of black co-workers told me how mind blown they were when they were reading black writers who were talking about living in a country which had slavery, but then visiting to England and dining with aristocrats. There are some interesting YouTube videos on how German POWs were treated after the war which are strangely uplifting - it was no picnic, but they were treated decently and humanely and were astonished by this. Look around - there is a lot to be proud of.

You sound like you have a very closed mind.

Nothing to be proud or embarrassed about, it’s not like you had any choice in the matter

Scotland were major investors in carribean plantations. Glasgow is built on profits from tobacco and sugar. Also - google "highland clearances" please

Ireland has a history of the catholic church stronghold and magadele laundries

Former colonies;
India has a vicious caste system that far predates british rule. Also the practice of sati (which the British got rid of)

Kenya amd Nigeria: Post independence civil wars and tribe wars.

Not to mention that a nunber of Former colonies today still see homosexuality punishable by death or imprisonment.

But yes England is the only country with a shameful past.

I dont mean to offend countries listed above, im instead making the point that every country has less than palatable chapters of their history.

Someone claiming not to be brain washed because they had an Irish teacher at a catholic school! You’ve got to admit that’s a classic.

I was going to say the industrial revolution too. Also democracy and the thinking behind it (got from the Greek's but extended it to modern times)

There's loads to be proud of. I feel the flag should be displayed by a lot more people - ordinary brits - not just the right wing. Otherwise it's a vacuum that Nige has stepped into.

And I am certainly proud to be one of the women of Terf Island!

(Said as non-white, first-gen immigrant)

ALL wealthy countries have a history of being colonists, do you berate them all? Or just the English?

Secondly, the English were the first to abolish slavery, were you aware of that op?

You have the most wonderful heritage of tolerance, democracy, equality and freedom - these values mean everything to me, and to billions in the world. Perhaps you are not aware of just how deeply fortunate you are to live in such a beautiful and free country.

Move away, experience life elsewhere as I have done for many decades, and you will come back with a new appreciation 💯

You can be ashamed of your countries history but you as an individual are not defined by your country’s history if you choose not to be.

It’s like when some Germans act embarrassed of their history I say well you are totally different and have educated yourself on your nations wrong and doing the opposite of some of your (worst) ancestors so you’re going in the right direction and nothing you can do but continue!

The ones who should be ashamed are the ones who still have those views. It’s like I mean some white “Rhodesians” who said some awful things as if they hadn’t moved on from apartheid or whatever the old system was there. Or English flagshaggers who say things rooted in white supremacy that colonialists would be proud of. Focus on tackling that rather than indulging in guilt. Much more useful all round.

Don't despair OP. Every country has good and bad aspects to it. I'm Irish and I've just applied for British citizenship - it's my home now.

There are plenty of things English people can be proud of — our history, literature, countryside and social progress, among others. I don’t see why that should carry any sense of shame. It’s perfectly possible to acknowledge historical wrongs while also recognising achievements.

And plenty of African tribes sold fellow Africans to the slavers.

True. Maybe it's my personal circumstances eg DH family not massive fans of the English (due to conflict history) although they've always treated me well. It's just little comments and references here and there that make you feel like you need to apologise

Virtue signalling bullshit. I'm apathetic about nationality, the flag shagging brigade represent me as little as you do.

Just because I’m also Irish and nosy! Is there a reason you’ve applied for citizenship?

I think it's daft that people get so absorbed in politics that they let it takeover their whole lives to the extent that politics is how they judge one person or another, or even how they view their own country.

I have a German friend whose grandad was a Nazi. She also has struggled with similar feelings

We abolished slavery