I dread phone calls with my deep thinking daughter

[Isthatmyleopard]

My daughter is in her mid-20s and an incredibly deep thinker, she studied philosophy, religion and ethics and a MA in philosophy, she is considering a PhD. She was baptised/first communion as a child but we've had little engagement with the church lately, she however has returned, goes to mass often but not weekly. She is incredible, and I am very proud of her, but she never seems to be able to approach a topic lightly. It makes me dread phone calls as seemingly the most basic conversation can be turned into philosophy, theology or sociology. She isn't forcing a belief on me at all more so she is inquisitive, the adult version of a toddler who can't stop asking why and loves to play devils advocate, or have deep conversations about a totally abstract topic. In particular she loves to discuss how different philosophical schools of thought intertwine or compete with religion, the theology of various Christian denominations and the roots of breakaway churches/schisms. I often ask for a lighter phone call just about her life as she has friends and is social and sporty, but after a brief overview it always goes into ... and we spoke about this, followed by her asking questions on my thoughts on the topic. Even discussions about books go far deeper than I can handle. She also does it with sport, we both enjoy tennis but I can never just comment on a match without it turning into a conversation on the sociology of women in sports, the psychology of competition etc.
All that's to say I find it exhausting, if she were just sharing her thoughts I wouldn't mind so much, but it often comes with lots of questions such as what are your thoughts? Why do you think that?

Today we met for lunch and she told me it makes her sad I don't show the same interest in her interests as I do her brothers or call her as often, I explained why and that her brothers are more content with small talk so I find calling them requires less mental energy, she apologised and said she doesn't know how to turn off the deep thinking. She has a long term boyfriend who seems to be interested in the intellectual sparring so I'm not sure why she is so keen to get it from me.

AIBU to find this exhausting? How do I handle it before it damages our relationship?

That's a spectacular leap, I would have thought emotional issues fall into the "deep" category and that's precisely what the OP doesn't want

But why does every conversation need to be an opportunity to “engage further” with philosophical questions?

And the poor OP does not want to be subjected to an academic back and forth Q&A session when she just wants to find out what is going on in her daughter’s life.

This thread has been extremely alarming with the number of people who seem to have no emotional intelligence whatsoever.

It isn’t arrogant to acknowledge that intelligent people are often lonely.

Research suggests intelligence can correlate with loneliness due to deeper thinking, different interests, and communication gaps, creating a disconnect from peers who prefer simpler interactions, leading to feelings of isolation, though highly intelligent individuals often find solitude fulfilling, enjoying their own company and intellectual pursuits more than superficial social engagement.

People with high IQ often desire deeper, more meaningful interactions but struggle to find peers who share their intellectual curiosity, leading to dissatisfaction with typical friendships.

Many intelligent people enjoy their own company and find solitude mentally stimulating, preferring it to social events that don't engage them intellectually.

@BlueJuniper94

she doesn’t sound that bright if she cannot attune to - and to somewhat adjust to - the conversational style of her fellow conversationalist.

People with high IQ often desire deeper, more meaningful interactions but struggle to find peers who share their intellectual curiosity, leading to dissatisfaction with typical friendships.

That’s a complete over-generalisation and no doubt comes from a self-selecting sample of that type of person.

It’s not hostility @BlueJuniper94, it’s empathy for her Mum, because her DD doesn’t consider her feelings when talking to her.

Family relationships aren’t a one-way street-yes, parents are always there for their adult children, but there needs to be some mutual consideration.

It's not just some random in a dentists waiting room. It's her mother.

Not wishing every conversation to be a deep one, and specifically a deep one on a topic that only one party wishes to speak about/has any interest in, is not the same thing as being airheaded. You can be a ‘deep thinker’ and not always be in the mood for intellectual conversation. Hell, I’m perfectly capable of conversing about Wittgenstein, or about the neuroses of Kierkegaard, or even on linguistic nationalism in the successor states of Yugoslavia, but that doesn’t mean I’m always in the mood to do so, or that ‘deep conversation’ is always appropriate and/or necessary on every occasion.

A deep thinker can also be in possession of social intelligence, and refrain from being a lecturing bore to (what is believed to be) a captive audience.

No one is being hostile to those with a brain. People are being ‘hostile’ to those who, perhaps through insecurity and/or a lack of social nous, feel driven to prove what they claim to be superior intelligence every chance they get, ironically by showcasing their lack of an important type of it.

Incidentally, disdain for the apparently inferior ‘normies’ and ‘airheads’ doesn’t actually qualify one as a deep thinker, or even particularly intelligent. What it displays is the fervent desire to be seen as such.

Out of curiosity - what are the OP and her sons mutual interests that OPs daughter feels excluded from? She says she's sporty, so it's probably not that...

Do you think if they confined the chat to Corrie/the weather OP would call her as often as she does her brothers?

My Dh is in Mensa. He’s not like this.

Ds has an IQ of 137. He’s very chatty and friendly. Loves social talk. He also loves history but doesn’t go on about it.

Who knew your relationship with your parents were contingent on your social skills. She obviously has these skills, as the OP says she has a social life/friends and relationships. She wouldn't have those if she was as neurospicy as everyone is insisting she must be. She just wants to engage/connect with her mum over more than basic shitchat. Why are so many here too deficient in EQ to recognise this?

Well yeah, it's great to be able to talk to 8 year olds and have them like you, but most adults crave adult conversations after years of only having conversations with or about children - are they 'not very bright' if they want to talk to other humans on a level above that?

That isn't saying the adults who are offended by her desire are children psychologically, but that the lack of having access and talking to somebody able to think and understand things at a deeper level than a child is isolating, boring and lonely, so it is absolutely reasonable for someone who is able to converse on a different level/subjects than the common denominator to want to do so without people calling her dim because she doesn't hide that in case other people feel threatened by it.

But about what her mum wants? Which is a nice catch up where they fill each other in on how things are going, and maybe have a short conversation about what her DD is studying.

There needs to be compromise.

Aw bless her. I couldn’t tell my kid not to tell me about stuff they find interesting. Can you just listen if you haven’t thought about the topic? Are you really not interested in what she has to say ever?

Surely you can understand that not everyone thinks the same. What you think is interesting will bore others and vice verser. It’s much better to widen your circle and have friends from different backgrounds and interests.

OP, you need to talk to your daughter about finding a different way to connect, one where she doesn’t feel fobbed off and you don’t feel bored or out off your depth.

Yeah, sure.

I don't understand this post. Teaching other people the thing is a job in the field, as far as theology and philosophy are concerned. What other jobs in those fields do you think there are, apart from becoming a professor? I suppose with theology you could become a minister, but isn't that just another form of teaching people the thing?

Anyway professors will be doing their own original research, not just teaching. And part of doing research and being a professor is that you don't just mindlessly repeat 'the thing', but you are generating new perspectives and insights on what 'the thing' is. Anyone who can't do that, won't get the job.

To return to the main discussion of the thread: OP's daughter going into academia isn't guaranteed to cure what OP is complaining about, I'm afraid. I have a family member in academia and yes, you'd think being able to have those kind of discussions with colleagues was enough, but it's the only kind of discussion my family member wants to have at home as well.

@BlueJuniper94

so does her mother not deserve the same consideration and courtesy she would show a randomer in the dentists waiting room??
are mums lesser, less deserving beings??

@BlueJuniper94

you’re right! 😊 there does need to be some compromise and give and take between op and daughter!

Parent the (adult) child you have.

Does she lack social awareness? My older brother can be like this, philosophy degree, postgraduate qualifications… very smart person, but cannot read the room at all. He was diagnosed with autism as an adult.

or perhaps she’s just a bit selfish/self obsessed / impressed by herself??

@Fernsrus When both parties are adults, though,parenting changes.

When my DD (20) and I talk, if one of us mentions a topic that the other doesn’t particularly wish to discuss, we say so and change the subject. It’s mutual respect.

Same with my Dad (87), I notice if he’s losing interest and change the subject. 🤷

I think I probably fall into the camp of 'What's the big deal here?' because this all sounds pretty normal to me. But I and DH are both academics/used to be and DS1, who sounds very like your DD, is hoping to head that way himself and will have Deep conversations on ... um, quite a lot of things. Geopolitics. The ethics of identity. Behavioural traits of various crocodilians. AI and the incipient global downfall it's going to provoke. Why our cats are dicks. Anglo-Saxon mythology and Tolkien. Warhammer 40K

And yes, sometimes I'm not really up for that. I do let on and tell him. He's probably of the broader autistic phenotype (as am I) so we do need people to tell us, gently, if we're boring on or going a bit too deep. So I think a bit of gentle pushback is ok, as long as you're not giving her the impression that you find her or her interests boring. Showing her that other people aren't always up for deep conversations about stuff is ok, but she sounds wonderful and someone to be cherished.

It genuinely makes me laugh that someone in this thread wrote that we need more “normies” in the world. The idea that deep thinkers lack emotional intelligence, must be neurodivergent, or are somehow unable to attune to others is just as absurd as the opposite stereotype, that people who are comfortable only with small talk are unintelligent.

We live in a world where complexity is increasingly dismissed as boring, pretentious, or arrogant, simply because many people want things to be easy and immediately digestible. Ironically, this is also why so many struggle in real life: they have little tolerance for the complexity of the world we actually live in.

The hostility towards this young is appalling. If I were her mother, I would feel deeply sorry for her, not because there is anything wrong with her, but because she appears to be a decent, thoughtful human being who has been casually labelled by complete strangers as neurodivergent, emotionally unintelligent, or arrogant, without anyone knowing her at all.

For genuinely concerning topics, people often show far more indulgence. But apparently, being “deep” has now become a flaw. We already live in a world dominated by “normies”, many of whom also set the global agenda. If a mother cannot tolerate one daughter who enjoys deep conversations as much as another who prefers constant frivolity, then yes, we really are living in a very sad world.

She sounds like a crashing bore. Good conversationalists pick up nuance and understand that conversations are two way exchanges of communication and not seminars.