I dread phone calls with my deep thinking daughter

[Isthatmyleopard]

My daughter is in her mid-20s and an incredibly deep thinker, she studied philosophy, religion and ethics and a MA in philosophy, she is considering a PhD. She was baptised/first communion as a child but we've had little engagement with the church lately, she however has returned, goes to mass often but not weekly. She is incredible, and I am very proud of her, but she never seems to be able to approach a topic lightly. It makes me dread phone calls as seemingly the most basic conversation can be turned into philosophy, theology or sociology. She isn't forcing a belief on me at all more so she is inquisitive, the adult version of a toddler who can't stop asking why and loves to play devils advocate, or have deep conversations about a totally abstract topic. In particular she loves to discuss how different philosophical schools of thought intertwine or compete with religion, the theology of various Christian denominations and the roots of breakaway churches/schisms. I often ask for a lighter phone call just about her life as she has friends and is social and sporty, but after a brief overview it always goes into ... and we spoke about this, followed by her asking questions on my thoughts on the topic. Even discussions about books go far deeper than I can handle. She also does it with sport, we both enjoy tennis but I can never just comment on a match without it turning into a conversation on the sociology of women in sports, the psychology of competition etc.
All that's to say I find it exhausting, if she were just sharing her thoughts I wouldn't mind so much, but it often comes with lots of questions such as what are your thoughts? Why do you think that?

Today we met for lunch and she told me it makes her sad I don't show the same interest in her interests as I do her brothers or call her as often, I explained why and that her brothers are more content with small talk so I find calling them requires less mental energy, she apologised and said she doesn't know how to turn off the deep thinking. She has a long term boyfriend who seems to be interested in the intellectual sparring so I'm not sure why she is so keen to get it from me.

AIBU to find this exhausting? How do I handle it before it damages our relationship?

I am an academic and I can talk chit chat and enjoy a break form intense conversations.

I have adhd too (very likely), and like many adults I recognised the traits within myself, after 8 year old dc's official diagnosis. When we get in a room together, we are both exhausted, and dc will say, "Okay that's enough Mum, then start a indepth conversation about her interests, which I then find my brain drifting off about! Poor dh has the patience of a saint, and my other dc, poor kid.
😂 I have learnt to adapt and control it better as I have gotten older. I make a conscious effort to listen more and restrain myself from blurting random pieces of information out (still slip up occasionally), and I do get overloaded. I also have made an effort to slow down my speech. It is tiring though, and it requires a great deal of energy. I also have another brain condition, so treating the adhd part isn't straight forward, but it is probably slightly helped anyway by one of the meds I take for that.

Oh and edited to say, I am so sorry thay you became so very unwell. It also helped me academically achieve due to the hyperfocussing on a particular interest. However, I was unwell in a different way, burnt out etc. I also have recently realised that I have masked all of my life, and I have endured things I really should not have done, all with a smile on my face, whilst suffering underneath.

I ahd a lot of both os these types of intelligence but I had no ability to understand myself or see that I was getting so mentally unwell becasue I was under so much pressure and stress - I had no understanding of myself and I lost everythign

The last sentence made me laugh out loud. I also exhaust myself in a similar way though often through repeated stints of existential crises.

Can you throw it back to her - “I don’t know. Why do think that is?”

This does sound like me and my daughter, and also me and my best friend. We call for a 6 minute 'hello' on the way to the supermarket and end up discussing childhood trauma, the patriarchy, feminism, corporate strategy... On and on and never ever small talk 😂 meanwhile, my husband doesn't really 'do' deep conversation although I often wish he would! I can imagine it's tiring with your daughter, you could take my husband's approach and bounce everything back; "what do YOU think about that?", "what are your thoughts", "oh you know I don't think too deeply about these things". Much like I do when he talks to me about car parts...

@CinnamonJellyBeans

why should OP be “grateful”? Be “grateful” that her offspring thinks she’s smart and worthy enough?? Yeah, nah.

yes, social intelligence is just as important as academic intelligence! Knowing who your audience is, gauging when is/isn’t an appropriate time for ‘deep’ conversation, ‘fitting in’ when required, having give and take in conversation, etc etc
sounds like OP’s daughter needs to realise this…

For a conversation to work and be enjoyable for both parties, the topic has to be something that both are interested in. It doesn't matter at all whether it's high brow super intellectual niche stuff or utterly mundane every day crap. The whole point of conversation is that it's a two way thing. Otherwise it's lecturing.

DP struggles with talking to his Mum because every time he tries, he gets 'Oh, I wouldn't know about that', 'Oh, no, I don't think so', 'No, never heard of it', 'Well, you can't do anything about that', 'No', 'Oh, no'. She's lovely and kind and pleasant, but there is a huge space where there could be conversation, so all I hear when he calls her is 'OK. Right. Uh-huh. No. I made a spinach and feta - it's a type of cheese made from Goats' milk and - yes, goats - no, I know, you can get similar cheese made with cows' milk and - you wouldn't like it? OK'.

It's hard for him - but it's apparently funny for both him and DD2's boyfriend when we meet up and they get to see me and DD2 go off on one talking about everything at a million miles a minute for two hours (and take turns in trying to chip in with something that they know about).

I couldn't cope with these types of conversations. I'm not stupid but I have no interest in, or understanding of those topics.
If it was my daughter I'd probably ask her to keep those conversations to like minded people and be a bit more casual when talking to me.

I’d call that small talk with your friend. You get through a variety of subjects in a small space of time

I wouldn’t call feminism, the patriarchy and corporate strategy small talk. If I attempt anything about feminism around lots of people I get eye rolling or glazing over.

Small talk is weather, holidays, food, gossip/factual discussion on what family members are doing, how work is going, I’m a celeb, Strictly.

She lacks emotional intelligence if she’s not capable of changing her conversational style to suit the moment. Just tell her you can’t be arsed listening to it.

Thank you for this post! So many people here are either blasting ostensibly "navel-gazing" intellectualism or dissing "vacuous" lighter conversation. For a start, there is a middle area--pleasant, lively conversation that is neither trivial nor hyper abstract. And there's also no reason not to cover the whole spectrum like your wonderful aunt. (I'm an academic who is also a fangirl of things I barely dare mention!) OP and her daughter might strive to meet in the middle.

I would call them small talk. It’s what my friends talk about. But maybe 5 minutes on each subject.

Not long deep conversations.

One of my friends is like this. I find I manage to fake it but I am internally eyerolling to some of the things she says but I love her and find it quite the sweet. If I lived with her tho I would defo get bored of it

Nobody I know has deep and meaningful conversations.
Our staff room chat usually consisted of families, TV, holidays etc. We had a new teacher whose conversation was along the lines of "What do you all think of the political situation in Afghanistan " etc.
The silence was deafening.

So ‘maturity’ means putting away any instinct to look deeper into moral and philosophical and scientific questions, the crucial ‘why?’ questions that actually make us a creative, analytical being?

I really don’t agree. And a child’s fascination with dinosaurs is not ‘childish’ at all, it shows that the child is curious about the past - the world beyond the safe familiarity of home, and this interest can last a lifetime.

Why should an interest in Wittgenstein be something vaguely embarrassing, while chatting about Midsomer Murders be perfectly socially acceptable?

I really think we are weird in the UK about people with intellectual interests, as if this is somehow snobby or pretentious. You don’t find this attitude in other countries like France or Germany, where intelligent curiosity is celebrated.

And yes, I agree with people who say you can do both - embrace the intellectual and the lighthearted, but this often comes with the confidence of age, and the OP’s daughter is very young.

Why can’t we deep thinkers be “neurotypical?”

I love a good chin wag about random things

it was actually my mother who gently pointed out to me around the same age that sometimes all people want to do is exchange pleasantries and check one another isn’t dead yet 😁

I do think I used to spend more time talking about these deep things with her precisely because I knew some others didn’t have the interest and I was just used to chatting to her!

Btw a young child’s interest in Dinos and their relative names and characteristics is thought to be a great primer for later vocab about all sorts of things. But they could equally be obsessed with birds or dog type or Pokémon.

obviously some just stick to dinosaurs and become palaeontologists

It's a daughter begging her mum to connect with her. It's not about neurodiversity or lacking social skills.

I'm quite sure they do cover the basics and rather than hang up the poor girl wants to engage further. This thread has been both alarming and vindicating in my suspicions of what goes on in most people's heads when not directly engaged in something.

She's not inflicting it. She's asking for the OPs perspective.

So much hostility towards the poor girl because she has a brain, I had no idea we live among quite such a proportion of Stepford airheads