Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I dread phone calls with my deep thinking daughter

429 replies

Isthatmyleopard · 30/12/2025 02:56

My daughter is in her mid-20s and an incredibly deep thinker, she studied philosophy, religion and ethics and a MA in philosophy, she is considering a PhD. She was baptised/first communion as a child but we've had little engagement with the church lately, she however has returned, goes to mass often but not weekly. She is incredible, and I am very proud of her, but she never seems to be able to approach a topic lightly. It makes me dread phone calls as seemingly the most basic conversation can be turned into philosophy, theology or sociology. She isn't forcing a belief on me at all more so she is inquisitive, the adult version of a toddler who can't stop asking why and loves to play devils advocate, or have deep conversations about a totally abstract topic. In particular she loves to discuss how different philosophical schools of thought intertwine or compete with religion, the theology of various Christian denominations and the roots of breakaway churches/schisms. I often ask for a lighter phone call just about her life as she has friends and is social and sporty, but after a brief overview it always goes into ... and we spoke about this, followed by her asking questions on my thoughts on the topic. Even discussions about books go far deeper than I can handle. She also does it with sport, we both enjoy tennis but I can never just comment on a match without it turning into a conversation on the sociology of women in sports, the psychology of competition etc.
All that's to say I find it exhausting, if she were just sharing her thoughts I wouldn't mind so much, but it often comes with lots of questions such as what are your thoughts? Why do you think that?

Today we met for lunch and she told me it makes her sad I don't show the same interest in her interests as I do her brothers or call her as often, I explained why and that her brothers are more content with small talk so I find calling them requires less mental energy, she apologised and said she doesn't know how to turn off the deep thinking. She has a long term boyfriend who seems to be interested in the intellectual sparring so I'm not sure why she is so keen to get it from me.

AIBU to find this exhausting? How do I handle it before it damages our relationship?

OP posts:
Allisnotlost1 · 30/12/2025 12:33

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 30/12/2025 11:31

I hated the intensity, and the deep
probing and questioning. I felt smothered by it.

Well, we’re all different. A shame for you (and me) that we didn’t have mothers who were more similar to us!

carlchem · 30/12/2025 12:34

I think she needs to consider her audience when she is talking like this. You can have in-depth discussions with people who are interested in having them and with others you have different types of conversation and neither type of conversation has more or less value than the other. It's about communicating with others and maintaining a relationship with them. You have said it's too much for you and you want to talk about other things and yet she still does it. She needs to dial it back a bit with you.
I would also find it hard work. It's difficult to discuss things like that with people who have studied these topics and read (and continue to read) so many books on the subject. It's not something I'm interested in and I don't have the reading and knowledge to discuss philosophy in detail. I would have to say something her too, that her knowledge and ideas are way beyond mine and that I can't keep up with the conversation and can we please talk about something else. I'd then be changing the subject as much as possible. She's not wrong to want to talk about these things but she does need to choose appropriate discussion partners!
I studied chemistry and did 3 years of research for a PhD which I wasn't able to complete for reasons I won't go into here. I would never have dreamed about talking about my research in detail with my parents or non-chemist friends and expecting them to contribute their own opinion when none of them had a background in the subject. They all knew vaguely what I was working on but not the details and they didn't want or need to know the ins and outs of it.
It's the same for philosophy and religion. While a lot of people know a reasonable amount because there tends to be more general knowledge about these, it gets to a point when someone who has studied so much that the average person cannot keep up with the discussion, in exactly the same way as they'd find it very difficult to keep up with science topics at the higher levels.

Basically, she needs to talk to you about other things and learn the signs that show whether someone is interested and receptive to the discussion or not.

FoxRedPuppy · 30/12/2025 12:35

I was your daughter, and I was very aware that people found me exhausting. It made me hate that part of myself. I can do small talk, I find it very hard.

Unlike the arrogance that is suggested on this thread I have always wished I wasn’t like this. I wish I found small talk easy, and could chat about the weather, nails, whatever easily. It means I’ve found it hard to make mum friends, means I dread the hairdresser. I wish I was normal.

Im much better at normal chat now I’m older, but I find it exhausting. I chatted with an in-law over Christmas about his new Sky package, and about varying medical conditions. I basically spend all my time pretending to be someone else.

I don’t think I’m better than anyone. I think people who can chit chat are fa superior than me!

LighthouseLED · 30/12/2025 12:39

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 30/12/2025 10:55

Well, l think l’m pretty intelligent. I’m not lonely. I have friends and family to chat to.

I think you mean selfishness is pretty lonely. Who wants to hear someone banging on about philosophy all the time?

The ability to avoid ‘deep’ conversations does not signify lack of intelligence.

Agree with this.

I’ve had my IQ assessed as being in the top 0.1% of the population (only mentioning this as posters seem to be equating intelligence with interest in academia). I still don’t want to have a lot of deep conversations and would run away screaming from any kind of gathering of academics talking about their subjects.

Some people have a very narrow view of “intelligence”.

nocoolnamesleft · 30/12/2025 12:43

Those sound like fascinating conversations. Frankly I’m jealous.

CinnamonJellyBeans · 30/12/2025 12:48

Just read through all the resonses on this thread.

"Examination day" by Henry Slesar.

UnintentionalArcher · 30/12/2025 12:54

AnnaMagnani · 30/12/2025 09:03

My DH once applied Wittgenstein in B&Q when we were trying to buy a wood chopper. Ultimately it turned out that Wittgenstein favours Screwfix.

Both DH and I like this sort of conversation (although I have my limits) but are aware our friends, neighbours, work colleagues and most importantly mothers do not and so are able to rein it in.

However I suspect we were unbearable in our twenties. OP has to wait it out.

@AnnaMagnani This made me laugh out loud - partly in recognition. I suspect I could also be quite intense in my twenties 😂. Going from uni, where these conversations were commonplace, into the wider world, where they are not, did take adjustment. Luckily I then married someone similar so we could be each other’s main conversation partner, along with wide-ranging WhatsApp chats with various friends. I’m so much better at small talk than I used to be and now take pleasure in making social as well as intellectual connections.

@Isthatmyleopard I was like your daughter as a younger woman - perhaps less intensely so, but I was learning to find channels for my intellectual curiosity once I’d finished uni. I am ND by the way - diagnosed ADHD. Loving my parents, I was always interested in their thoughts on various topics.

One of my parents was very open to this kind of phone conversation and the other wasn’t; they view phone calls more like a ‘family bulletin’ - I’ve done this, what have you done?, here are some updates on family members X, Y and Z.

Funnily enough (and I’m not suggesting it’s the same with you) the parent who is happy with deeper discussions is, I would say, neurotypical, while the one who does not want them is actually very similar to me in many ways, and I suspect has undiagnosed ADHD. From discussions with this parent over the years, I’ve realised that they went to school at a time when intelligence was viewed more narrowly (significantly about fact retention with less value placed on using that knowledge for critical thinking). They found this fairly difficult, but are an excellent critical thinker and highly emotionally intelligent. My impression is that my parent doesn’t express or explore these elements of themselves as much as they naturally might because it was not encouraged when they were growing up.

Ultimately, I think our communication issues came from both sides; we both suffer from anxiety which we deal with differently - my parent by keeping a certain control over topics of conversation (among other things). My communication style didn’t help - like many with ADHD, my natural speech can be very fast when excited about an idea or feeling anxious, which I recognise can be overwhelming (I modulate this now). For a long time, I thought that my parent found me annoying (which they probably did sometimes). I knew they loved me, but I felt that they didn’t especially like me at times.

I now realise, partly just from maturing, partly through recognising my own (and our similar) tendencies through diagnosis, and partly though therapy, that our disconnects in communication don’t necessarily mean this. We are closer now than we were and I think we understand each other better, but it’s still not as ‘easy’ a relationship as I have with my other parent. I’ve learnt over time mainly to have lighter discussions with this parent, especially on the phone, though I do feel a bit of sadness at a missed opportunity to know them more deeply by hearing about their ideas from time to time.

With your daughter, I think the overall balance is what matters. She will probably mellow as she matures, but may also benefit from being told when she’s getting a bit much. Equally, if she is really interested in your thoughts (which most genuinely intellectual people are), then engaging with her this way sometimes on some topics when you have the bandwidth will probably deepen your relationship and make her feel valued.

Tessisme · 30/12/2025 13:01

Im much better at normal chat now I’m older, but I find it exhausting. I chatted with an in-law over Christmas about his new Sky package, and about varying medical conditions. I basically spend all my time pretending to be someone else.

I completely relate to this @FoxRedPuppy. And the example you have given about someone’s new Sky package is exactly what small talk is to me. The medical conditions not necessarily, depending on context. But I find that sort of small talk excruciating. My dad was the same and didn’t even bother to try🤣

However, some of the posters here are suggesting that any conversation that isn’t intellectual in nature is small talk and I disagree. People can have meaningful exchanges without burrowing into each other’s brains. My friend and I like to chat about ASD, for example, and how it affects our children. It’s interesting to us. Just a mutual exchange of our thoughts and experiences. It isn’t philosophical or deep, but it’s interesting. And, as far as I’m concerned, it’s not small talk. Or even chit chat.

latetothefisting · 30/12/2025 13:02

Needlenardlenoo · 30/12/2025 10:32

Well it was and it wasn't - as I then felt socially constrained to put the book away and hang around being bored some more.

God I don't miss those pre schooler days! Hours of hanging out with women you've nothing in common with apart from the birth date of your children.

You had nothing in common with them at all? Didn't live in the same area? Weren't of similar ages? The same news and current events didn't take apply to all of you?

If you were so bored of what they were talking about it was open to you to suggest other topics of conversation! It's possible to find something interesting in nearly any topic.

As an example I have no interest in almost any type of team sport. I would literally rather sit in silence and watch paint dry than listen to the boring rehash of who scored what. BUT I have been involved in sports related conversations I've found fascinating - things relating to ethics or the philosophy of winning, nationalism and the link between teams winning and losing and DV. A first hand account from someone who was at Hillsborough. Where someone had travelled when supporting their team, how they found those countries and what else they did/ate/experienced there. What someone thought of the "dear england" play. What's going on with the Beckhams atm!

Basically while the conversations started out with "sports" they ended up touching on a variety of overlapping subjects I do find interesting - travel, theatre, history, sociology, feminism, celebrity gossip!

I could have missed out on all of that if I'd just thought "oh god they're talking about football, no thanks ill just take my book and sit in a corner."

latetothefisting · 30/12/2025 13:05

Deleted due to mn double posting again....

AndSoitComesAroundAgain · 30/12/2025 13:15

Isthatmyleopard · 30/12/2025 06:09

Oh nos she absolutely can talk about other things, she just drifts into the abstract naturally it’s not that she is incapable of engaging with topics that aren’t her particular interests. I also don’t believe she is neurodivergent.

She is hyperfocussing op, and missing social cues that the other person isn't up for such a deep lengthy discussion. ND isn't the devil you know, she sounds like she at least has some traits. It might be worth exploring. I have a ND child (primary school aged though), and she is beautiful; I wouldn't change her for the world, it is however exhausting.

BadgernTheGarden · 30/12/2025 13:27

Everyone is ND, no two people think the same way. You can't get into my brain and see how differently it works to yours, but I guarantee if you could they would be hugely different whether or not we are labelled as ND.

Whohaseatenmyporridge · 30/12/2025 13:51

LucyLoo1972 · 30/12/2025 12:03

I have the same interests as your daughter and have a PHD from an elite university and have published books in the field. But im from a non intellectual working-class background and have a lot of other interests so can talk about a lot of things and most peopel are surprised when they find out im an academic. one of my friends who I have been going on holiday with for years thought I worked in the university as a kitchen help!!

my husband is however very intellectual and this was our main bonding ppint which has caused problems in our marriage if you look up my other posts.

But, and I dont want to scare you in any way - after I submitted my PhD I ended up having a kind of psychosis based around my research. thinking about existential questions every day all day really messed with my head and thats as somebody who did lots of other things and had a whole set of friends outside of academia. I got very very poorly and it changed my life forever. I lost who I was. I was that toddler and I can even remeenr my mum saying ot me back then you are exhausting I cant keep up with your questions. and then she said I was like the little girl form outnumbered and then Saffy from ABFab. and I was by far the least nerdy of my colleagues. I was researching things on social class so I had to be able to connect with 'normal' people and I was brilliant at that until I started believing I was a being used by the devil and all my theological knowledge came back to bite.

so I would say maybe keep an eye on her mental health.

I feel your pain but I was Abel to not be like this with people outside of academia

This thread has been really interesting for me and specifically your post @LucyLoo1972 and your mention towards the end about mental health.

I have a 24yr old ND son who is a very deep thinker and his interest lies in philosophy/theology and astronomy and he is hyper focussed on these areas, however, he is able to talk about other subjects for a short while, be it a tv programme or what a cousin is up to or a documentary on travel/wildlife etc but it becomes very clear when boredom has set in. What he absolutely needs and that has been missing from his life is a circle of like minded people to bounce all these theological/philosophical ideas off of. He has me and his dad and we are happy to engage and ask questions but neither of us are operating on the same level of research, knowledge or interest so it only goes so far to stretching him, so all these thoughts and questions are spinning in his head pretty much 24/7 with little outlet - it has been exceedingly detrimental to his mental health and he has been battling psychosis for the past 18 months.

LucyLoo1972 · 30/12/2025 14:00

Whohaseatenmyporridge · 30/12/2025 13:51

This thread has been really interesting for me and specifically your post @LucyLoo1972 and your mention towards the end about mental health.

I have a 24yr old ND son who is a very deep thinker and his interest lies in philosophy/theology and astronomy and he is hyper focussed on these areas, however, he is able to talk about other subjects for a short while, be it a tv programme or what a cousin is up to or a documentary on travel/wildlife etc but it becomes very clear when boredom has set in. What he absolutely needs and that has been missing from his life is a circle of like minded people to bounce all these theological/philosophical ideas off of. He has me and his dad and we are happy to engage and ask questions but neither of us are operating on the same level of research, knowledge or interest so it only goes so far to stretching him, so all these thoughts and questions are spinning in his head pretty much 24/7 with little outlet - it has been exceedingly detrimental to his mental health and he has been battling psychosis for the past 18 months.

im so really sorry to hear this. I had a lot of outlets because I had colleagues in my field and was teaching students at the university. And although I was kid of fixated obsessively on my research for emotional reasons, I was very interested in lots of others things too - although I have to say I took even these to a pretty elevated level like being interested in contemporary art I ended up acquiring a very significant art collection with my husband. I was very different from ym sister who wanted to talk about more normal things like make up and Dyson hair wraps! Nobody would have noticed anything remotely awkward or off about my mental health- I loved having loads of friends round and cooking feasts and having a few drinks!

I had a lot of other pressures on me at the time in my marriage and also had unresolved childhood trauma. I honestly down know how I got to the place I did and never having a meltdown before but when it came down it absolutely came down and ive been very very unwell for 9 years and lost my academic career. the worst thign is I lost the ability ot even think on the level becasue it terrifies me now.

I hope your son is getting better, you are good to help him.

nomas · 30/12/2025 14:05

Muffinmam · 30/12/2025 10:32

Your daughter needs to find some friends.

My partner is incapable of any deep conversation.

The one time we almost had a conversation he got angry and aggressive because I knew more than him about the subject.

I think your daughter must be so isolated that she’s trying to have a conversation with you but you are incapable of contributing in any meaningful way.

Intelligence is incredibly lonely.

Intelligence is incredibly lonely.

🙄

Someone not sharing your special interest doesn’t mean they lack intelligence.

You thinking this is incredibly arrogant.

Why can’t you make connections? I know plenty of people with beautiful minds who are not lonely at all.

LucyLoo1972 · 30/12/2025 14:05

AndSoitComesAroundAgain · 30/12/2025 13:15

She is hyperfocussing op, and missing social cues that the other person isn't up for such a deep lengthy discussion. ND isn't the devil you know, she sounds like she at least has some traits. It might be worth exploring. I have a ND child (primary school aged though), and she is beautiful; I wouldn't change her for the world, it is however exhausting.

Edited

yes - worth looking into. I have adhd like symptoms from CPTSD. I thought that cant be possible but I see now how it impacted me severely and how I did what I did I have no clue. I actually believe it was probably responsible to a great extent for some of my academic success. I made groundbreaking insights becasue I was able to see connections others would not have done. My husband is the same. it actually led to me getting very mentally unwell.

LucyLoo1972 · 30/12/2025 14:06

latetothefisting · 30/12/2025 13:02

You had nothing in common with them at all? Didn't live in the same area? Weren't of similar ages? The same news and current events didn't take apply to all of you?

If you were so bored of what they were talking about it was open to you to suggest other topics of conversation! It's possible to find something interesting in nearly any topic.

As an example I have no interest in almost any type of team sport. I would literally rather sit in silence and watch paint dry than listen to the boring rehash of who scored what. BUT I have been involved in sports related conversations I've found fascinating - things relating to ethics or the philosophy of winning, nationalism and the link between teams winning and losing and DV. A first hand account from someone who was at Hillsborough. Where someone had travelled when supporting their team, how they found those countries and what else they did/ate/experienced there. What someone thought of the "dear england" play. What's going on with the Beckhams atm!

Basically while the conversations started out with "sports" they ended up touching on a variety of overlapping subjects I do find interesting - travel, theatre, history, sociology, feminism, celebrity gossip!

I could have missed out on all of that if I'd just thought "oh god they're talking about football, no thanks ill just take my book and sit in a corner."

Edited

I love this! so true

VanGoSunflowers · 30/12/2025 14:09

One interesting thing about this thread - there are people in both camps as I said earlier, the ‘deep thinkers’ and the lovers of chit chat. But you are ALL having a deep and meaningful now about the merits of both! I am in the ‘deep thinking’ camp, but I am finding this thread fascinating.
It’s making me think ‘deeper’ about the value of chit chat and what it must mean to some of my friends!

InterIgnis · 30/12/2025 14:25

Academic intelligence is one type of intelligence, but of arguably equal or even greater value in practice is social intelligence. Being capable of ‘deep’ conversation and debate does not a mean demonstration of this is required in every conversation. Knowing how to read a room, and engage with people where they are, is a skill.

Being a bore doesn’t engage people with a field of interest, or indeed with the person being a bore. Taken to the extreme, it repels. Being academically intelligent does not mean that someone isn’t limited when it comes to social intelligence, and this can be a problem on a number of levels (as can the reverse be). ‘I don’t do small talk because it’s so boring to me’ isn’t a show of intelligence but of limitation, in much the same way as ‘I don’t do that nerd shit’ is.

BruFord · 30/12/2025 14:34

Academic intelligence is one type of intelligence, but of arguably equal or even greater value in practice is social intelligence

Well said, @InterIgnis. I live near a prestigious university so many of my neighbors are academics, learned in subjects that are well beyond my capabilities. But they can also chat away at a barbecue or party. It’s a very valuable skill.

OneRealMoose · 30/12/2025 14:37

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

OneRealMoose · 30/12/2025 14:39

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

chisping · 30/12/2025 14:44

pusspuss9 · 30/12/2025 12:00

you don't need to feel like a dunce. You could pick out part of a comment that has been made, comment being eg. ' I've noticed most 40 year old men tend to wear dark brown clothes whilst drinking whisky and discussing Einstein's theory ', you could say 'do you think there's a reason why they all seem to pick dark brown?
This is an absolutely stupid example but I can't think of anything better atm, but you see the drift. An intelligent person will stop in their tracks and seriously consider your question. This will change the course of the discussion to another less heavy but equally interesting track

Oh I do that, when I first met them I was very young and shy. Now I'm old and don't care. I've known SIL for over 40 years. She would turn it into a discussion about brown. Do we all perceived the colour brown in the same way? Did ancient tribes have names for colours. Why does the brain attach significance to colours... You get the drift.🤣

Needlenardlenoo · 30/12/2025 15:01

latetothefisting · 30/12/2025 13:02

You had nothing in common with them at all? Didn't live in the same area? Weren't of similar ages? The same news and current events didn't take apply to all of you?

If you were so bored of what they were talking about it was open to you to suggest other topics of conversation! It's possible to find something interesting in nearly any topic.

As an example I have no interest in almost any type of team sport. I would literally rather sit in silence and watch paint dry than listen to the boring rehash of who scored what. BUT I have been involved in sports related conversations I've found fascinating - things relating to ethics or the philosophy of winning, nationalism and the link between teams winning and losing and DV. A first hand account from someone who was at Hillsborough. Where someone had travelled when supporting their team, how they found those countries and what else they did/ate/experienced there. What someone thought of the "dear england" play. What's going on with the Beckhams atm!

Basically while the conversations started out with "sports" they ended up touching on a variety of overlapping subjects I do find interesting - travel, theatre, history, sociology, feminism, celebrity gossip!

I could have missed out on all of that if I'd just thought "oh god they're talking about football, no thanks ill just take my book and sit in a corner."

Edited

I'm happy to chat to most people. There are genuinely some situations though where the other people don't want to, have no conversation or make it quite plain they think you are weird (nowadays people just stay on their phones and don't look up).

If you've never encountered that then I'm happy for you.

I've rarely managed to get football loving types onto anything interesting for those of us with little interest in football! That's amazing that you managed that.

I did discover once that if a team play on astro and are likely to get promoted then they have to sign the contract to say they'll get a grass pitch before contesting the final, which I thought was quite interesting.

ElleintheWoods · 30/12/2025 15:12

@IamtheDevilsAvocado @tara66 @Iris2020 @BlueJuniper94 @FigTreeInEurope @ParallelLimes @Fairyliz
and others who find mundane and superficial conversations/ small talk mind numbing and would rather poke their eyeballs out, how do you organise your social life? Do you deliberately avoid bores that want to discuss lipsticks, reality tv and other people’s personal lives? And how do you go about finding decent friends under 60?

Do you accept these conversations and pretend to enjoy it, or do you just actively avoid? I’ll have that kind of chat with a stranger or random colleague of course but beyond that… Hmmm…

It was such a big transition for me to start work and realise that some people legit prefer ‘light’ conversations. I assumed that they talk properly at home but increasingly I realise many people don’t.

I don’t live in London/ work with academics much anymore and I get stupidly excited when I meet someone who wants to discuss African politics or the pros and cons of international supply chains for 4 hours. Me and my best friend(s) together (I’m the only non-Dr) chatting must be giving some people nightmares 🤣