My brother is dying, he doesn't want to tell his only daughter

[Lilmie]

My brother isn't particularly old, just 65. He has one daughter, she lives abroad and is 25. She was a much wished for child, my brother and his wife struggles immensely, refused fertility help on religious grounds and when she arrived she became everything to them. They had a nasty split, her mother was mentally unwell, she took his daughter back to her home country, he wasn't a lazy dad, he genuinely believed her mother would be happier at home and his daughter would be happier with a present and happy mum but soon after she moved her parents passed, then 6 years ago she took her own life, by this point his daughter was in another country from both of them, at university, where she has stayed since. He is fiercely protective of his daughter, visits as much as he can.

In late November he was diagnosed with cancer, terminal. He has refused treatment, he doesn't want the fuss of it and he won't be convinced not by us anyway. He is still relatively well in himself right now which I think may be why he is refusing treatment, nausea and fatigue but little else, but was told months at most without treatment.

Now his daughter is visiting over the new year, she is newly engaged, we are having a big family party. He doesn't want to tell her, not now, not before it's his final days. His argument is that it won't do anything to soothe grief, only start it earlier. He doesn't want her to worry, try to move back or panic.

I'm feeling very morally confused by it, on one hand I believe its his right to decide, on the other I don't want to lie to her, he plans to pass any illness off as feeling unwell, maybe the flu. He is quite a rigid and traditional man, he writes to her weekly, calls her but has no interest in a smart phone, so never FaceTimes. He was a tradesmen so email and phone calls were all his career asked of him, so she truly has no idea he is unwell. I also have a silent hope she might be the one person who could convince him into treatment, especially if she sold it as being around long enough to see her married, but I al think this is why he doesn't want her to know, or at least partially.

AIBU to want to tell her? I've spoke to him, he won't give me permission to so it would be against his will, which isn't something I want to do, but somewhat feel it may be necessary.

You most definitely cannot go against his wishes and tell her. However I would have a look on line at the Marie curie website. There is a ton of information on about talking about death.
i am in your camp and think we absolutely should be talking about death and dying and that it’s actually very important for the bereaved however that is your brothers decision to make and I would not go against what he wants

@Lilmie Not quite the same situation, but similar split - underlying MH issues, M was religious, DF moved overseas to his home country. DF routinely kept big news from me, even when I was an adult. Right up until the end.

It broke my heart every single time to be the last to know. It infantalised me. The only person that benefitted from not disclosing serious information was my DF as he didn't have to process someone else's emotions. As much as I loved him, it was the ultimate selfish decision he took on multiple occasions. My DF couldn't hide his illness in the end, but he tried.

Your niece is an adult. She isn't daft. She will either work it out and confront him, or she will walk away. There is no grey area in this for her. The greatest gift your brother can give her is chance to make her own mind up about how she spends the last few months of his life. She will have to grieve anyway, but getting chance to choose how she does that is important. Otherwise what he leaves is not a legacy of love, it is one of resentment.

He also needs to talk to her about his arrangements after his death. DF did not and I have found myself wading through administrative soup at a time when all I want to do is scream at the universe.

You get one shot at this life. He can either dig deep and go out with dignity, or he can cause additional strife and heartache at his passing. It is his choice, but he needs to know the consequences.

You have to respect your brothers wishes. It would be a big betrayal to go against this.

However, you could ask him never to tell her that you know. So when he does deteriorate or die, it seems like it is a shock to you as well. May lessen the blow to her a bit.

Sorry to hear about your brother but this is his desicsion to make not yours he might not want her to act differently to him

It’s his decision to make and I do get it, my own dc have opposite situation, they know that their df (we are divorced) is terminal just now it’s a waiting game and they don’t know if they should be dropping everything to be there or carrying on (could be weeks, could be years) and palliative chemo isn’t going to cure you, at best extend a bit, he has gone on the tablet form

Sure, but what does the OP say when the niece asks her if she knew? Which is quite likely

Agree. This puts @Lilmie in a dreadful position.

Tell her. She deserves to make her own choices around her fathers death… she hasn’t had any power in the other deaths.

This is not your decision to make. This is your brother’s life, not yours. I imagine he wants a lovely, normal visit from his daughter without drama. That is absolutely his prerogative.

This muddles up the father choosing not to have treatment with his daughter knowing that her father is dying.

I'm sorry you are going through this. I have been in this position with my mum, who had cancer for 5 years and died earlier this year, and it's not a nice one to be in. My parents were not forthcoming with the truth about how bad things were and withheld a lot from me. It caused years of hurt and several big arguments and in all honesty, I don't think I'll ever get over it. He needs to tell her and if he refuses to then other family members should be involved.

Don’t tell her at the family party. But she does need to know - after the horror of her mother’s suicide, imagine having a father who let himself die without even mentioning it. She will hate him for that, and that will make her grieving so much harder.

For her sake she needs to have time to adjust to the idea of her passing - if his fear is that she will throw away a year of her life coming to care for him - can he not see that is her choice? That if she feels obliged to do it, or wants to do it, or needs to do it - then regardless if he does not let her do it she will resent him deeply for it.

There will be things that need to be said. While he has his remnants of his health, there is quality time to spend together. And he needs to create the space for it. No matter how frightened he feels.

Firstly, I am sorry to hear about your brother. I hope he is as comfortable as he can be.

Secondly, I would be telling him that I can't and won't stand by and keep something like this a secret from his daughter. That to do so would be unimaginably cruel to her, and that he's a fool if he thinks he is sparing her pain. That if he does this, he is robbing her of the chance to spend time with him, and to say her goodbyes. By lying to her - because he is lying by omission - he's lining her up to feel angry and bitter when he does die. And that's a really awful legacy to leave behind, for a man who says he loves and cares for his daughter.

By telling you, he's put you in a terrible position where he expects you to become part of the lie - and worse, to have to be the one who lives with the consequences of it after he's gone. His wishes are just that - wishes. They aren't mandatory. You can respect his wishes if you want, but you are equally free to tell him that you are going to disregard them. If he wanted absolute control over his death, and nobody to tell her, then he shouldn't have said anything to you or anyone else.

I would say to him that he has to tell her, because if he doesn't then I will. And that I'd rather live with his disappointment than having to face his grieving and devastated daughter wanting to know why I didn't tell her, and why I helped to steal her only chance to say goodbye to her dying father.

I have cancer. I think he is a fool but you would be wrong to share his information against his wishes and it may cause him stress which could make him more unwell, as well as being a betrayal from you which will leave him with less support.
you can explain to his daughter once she knows that he wouldn’t allow you to share the news and you wanted to. You can try to forge more of a connection with her so she has more family.
people do die suddenly in life, as this poor girl has already discovered. It happens and
may now happen with her father but it’s not out of the ordinary , people drop dead from heart attacks etc.
The secrecy and lying is bound to affect her, but the alternative of you forcing his hand is worse in my opinion. While he is still alive, he has time to change his mind, he may be in shock at the moment.

It’s his decision. By all means support him and keep talking to him and letting him work it through but I would absolutely not either tell her or put him in a position where he has to tell her. I wouldn’t lie- but I wouldn’t try to make her suspicious either.

Maybe you could suggest he writes a letter to give her either now or after his death that explains it?

And if you explain things to her I don’t think she’ll blame you.

He doesn't need to, he has a choice to die by himself without her being present.

Just make this holiday extra special for him and her if you can

I’d also like to add that I’ve been on chemo for a year and it’s mostly been absolutely fine, just because people are posting horror stories about chemotherapy and there’s not actually that helpful when you suddenly get a diagnosis and that’s what you think it will be like. I was terrified going into mine, if I had known what it would be like, I wouldn’t have been so scared.

This was me and my DF, he asked me to take him into hospital for tests but I didn’t know what for. I asked him but he was vague, I asked the staff and they were also vague. So I emailed PALS and asked if they could help me find out what was going on. I told them the staff were wonderful but didn’t seem to be telling me anything. PALS came back to me and said my father had requested I’m not told anything. It stung but I respected his decision.
As the weeks went by he deteriorated but I still didn’t know he was dying.
A week before he died he left a postcard from the hospice team on his hospital tray/little table, I’m sure it was his way of telling me.
He died in hospital a week later.
I did have some counselling straight after his death and this really helped me. I respect his decision and once I was told he didn’t want me to know any details I’m so pleased I didn’t keep asking him.
OP I really think you need to respect your DB’s decision, this is his death, he gets to choose how he wants it as much as he can.

I can see his side of this, I'd hate for my children to be grieving longer than necessary. Maybe I'd want some special time to spend together without mentioning illness though

Please tell him that he must tell her.

My DM died when I was 21. She took your DB’s approach. No one told DB (18) and me.

Hi @Lilmie , when my FIL got diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, his daughter brought her wedding forward by a year in order for him to walk her down the aisle. It was a beautiful wedding. Please ask him if he would consider this. For her sake.

Totally agree with this.

He is being selfish. I would tell her and tell me her he doesn't want her to know. Tell him he has the first two days of her visit to tell her or you will. Tell him it's not all about him. He doesn't get a veto just because he's dying.

It may seem harsh but sometimes that's the way to deliver the best outcome. He may be scared that once he tells her it's real. Offer support, offer to listen but draw the line at being an accomplice. You need to put your nieces feelings first. Even above your brother's, even if it seems awful.

I think you need to separate out the not having treatment and not telling his daughter as two distinct things in your mind. Not having treatment is his decision. Not telling his daughter is also (sadly) his decision and I think you have to respect it and can't tell her, although I completely agree with you that it is very unfair she doesn't know and when he reaches the end it'll make an awful situation so much harder for her. It also puts you in a difficult position and it may mean his daughter feels so hurt and betrayed that it damages the relationship with everyone in her dads family.

I would wait until the big party is over and his daughter and everyone else has gone home. He may want that to be normal and joyous. I would then have another serious chat to your brother, in his attempt to protect her what he is actually doing is creating another massive load of hurt on top of her losing him.