My brother is dying, he doesn't want to tell his only daughter

[Lilmie]

My brother isn't particularly old, just 65. He has one daughter, she lives abroad and is 25. She was a much wished for child, my brother and his wife struggles immensely, refused fertility help on religious grounds and when she arrived she became everything to them. They had a nasty split, her mother was mentally unwell, she took his daughter back to her home country, he wasn't a lazy dad, he genuinely believed her mother would be happier at home and his daughter would be happier with a present and happy mum but soon after she moved her parents passed, then 6 years ago she took her own life, by this point his daughter was in another country from both of them, at university, where she has stayed since. He is fiercely protective of his daughter, visits as much as he can.

In late November he was diagnosed with cancer, terminal. He has refused treatment, he doesn't want the fuss of it and he won't be convinced not by us anyway. He is still relatively well in himself right now which I think may be why he is refusing treatment, nausea and fatigue but little else, but was told months at most without treatment.

Now his daughter is visiting over the new year, she is newly engaged, we are having a big family party. He doesn't want to tell her, not now, not before it's his final days. His argument is that it won't do anything to soothe grief, only start it earlier. He doesn't want her to worry, try to move back or panic.

I'm feeling very morally confused by it, on one hand I believe its his right to decide, on the other I don't want to lie to her, he plans to pass any illness off as feeling unwell, maybe the flu. He is quite a rigid and traditional man, he writes to her weekly, calls her but has no interest in a smart phone, so never FaceTimes. He was a tradesmen so email and phone calls were all his career asked of him, so she truly has no idea he is unwell. I also have a silent hope she might be the one person who could convince him into treatment, especially if she sold it as being around long enough to see her married, but I al think this is why he doesn't want her to know, or at least partially.

AIBU to want to tell her? I've spoke to him, he won't give me permission to so it would be against his will, which isn't something I want to do, but somewhat feel it may be necessary.

As awful as it is, I think you need to not betray your brother.

You could tell her you think he has some health troubles, and she might do her own digging.

Poor you, poor him but most of all poor her. Its all rubbish, isn't it. Im so sorry.

He’s an idiot and very selfish. His poor daughter is going to have the shock of suddenly losing a parent - ALL OVER AGAIN!! The impact on her will be huge. Having said that, I wouldn’t tell the daughter before letting him know that’s what you’re going to do.

Honestly, I think he is being selfish by robbing his daughter of the chance to say goodbye.

My DM died suddenly aged 69. I still think of her missed call the day before that I didn't get round to returning.

My understanding of this is that he WILL tell his daughter but not yet

Just like he WILL engage with services and treatment (palliative I assume) but not yet

It has to be his decision. It really does.

Same. I think his rationale of not wanting to cause a fuss is flawed. I would tell her that he has health issues but doesn’t want her to know / worry and let her decide what to do.

I'm quite shocked so many people would disregard the brother's express wishes

Perhaps he wants her, when it happens, to take some comfort from believing he declined v quickly and didn't suffer for long

OP your best option is to meet with him, and help him sort all of his legal affairs since he has chosen to leave this world of his own accord. If he wants to write something to his daughter explaining his reasoning, just in case, then so be it. He confided in you, so you should respect his wishes. My mother, a nurse who died of breast cancer that spread to her lymph nodes and refused treatment, she always said funerals were for everyone but the deceased. She also withheld her diagnosis from me until after she passed, but she had everything lined out because she was very pragmatic, as is your brother. His body, his choice, and you can't fault him for it. Just make sure everything is done per his wishes since it is his life, not yours, not your niece's. People need to celebrate his life, not mourn it, as he's no longer going to suffer any further.

I don’t see him every day I am sorry @Katflapkit - I was speaking metaphorically. I’m hundreds of miles away. But it’s obvious his chances and quality of life are reducing daily as he declines, loses weight, mobility etc. I’m not a medic and @HipHipWhoRay is right, it’s not a linear decline and we’ve had the blood clot scares, norovirus etc - any of which could kill him quickly. It’s a bloody rollercoaster ride ugh.
I have squared it in my own heart as another PP suggests. I won’t lie but I will say something along the lines of “ You might need to have a convo with X about your worries”.

@Lilmie why not talk this through with MacMillan? They are brilliant, have much more experience on this than mumsnet ( sorry MN but it’s true!) and have given me wonderful support and clarity on issues.

For me it’s v important to give my brother what he asks. And he doesn’t have children. For you it’s a different scenario. Whatever you decide , it is being done with love and care bless you. You are doing the best you can.

I can understand his wish for no treatment. My DH had terminal cancer and all it did was prolong his pain and agony. It doesn't necessarily give you additional time that you can value.

You say your DB travels as often as he can to visit his DD. I'm guessing these trips will become fewer as his illness progresses (plus insurance will increase considerably or become impossible), so his DD may become suspicious anyway. Personally I would inform DB that I won't initiate a conversation with his DD, but if she were to ask questions, then I wouldn't lie to her

A friend of mine's mum did this. Didn't tell her she had cancer and was dying till she was really unwell. My friend was so upset, both with the fact her mum dying very quickly and that she hadn't told her (but had told others). It really impacted how she thought about her mum, then she felt guilty for feeling those things as her mum was about to, and then did die. She has found grieving really tough and feels betrayed by those other family members who didn't tell her, but also knows that like you they didn't want to go against her mums wishes. Not wanting to cause a fuss (her reason), may have made it easier for her to deal with her own impending death, which is understandable, but definitely was the wrong choice for her daughter. On the back of it I have asked my parents to promise not to keep something like that from me. I think you are in a really tough situation and am sorry, hope you are able to find some peace with any decison.

it sounds like a horribly difficult choice and one where either your niece ir your brother will feel let down by you - when you are stuck in the middle.

I’d feel even worse if you actually are in the position of being in a conversation with both of them when your brother tells your niece he’s a bit ill but it’s only flu or similar.

I’d possibly be tempted to say you can’t put yourself in that position so won’t go to the party - but then does that start to distance yourself from your neice in advance of a time when she will need her family?

You should respect his wishes even if you don’t understand or agree with them.

It seems like part of your motive is a hope she might persuade him to have treatment. But that’s not your call. From what I have seen - in some terminal patients treatment prolongs the agony; in others it makes them feel so ill that it increases suffering and can even speed death. One study found that cancer patients who receive chemo in the last months of their lives are less likely to die where they want and are more likely to undergo invasive medical procedures than those who do not receive it.

So he has the right to make his own decisions on both counts.

You have to respect your brothers wishes … neither my mum or fil let us know they were dying ( but on some level we did know ).

You mean that she will fall in with his delusional thinking? Don’t be daft!

What she will actually think is that his No Fuss schtick is an example of him treating her as a stranger and that he always thought she was too stupid or immature to handle death - conveniently forgetting that her mother has already died. She will be perfectly aware that the decision is all, all, about him and his keeping her in the dark for his own benefit, at her expense. She is still young and he should be considering her needs, even whilst dying he is still her parent.

If you genuinely think she is going to see this as a gift you are as delusional as he is.

How would you feel as
the daughter? I would be furious if my parents concealed this from me

I agree with this, his cancer is terminal and any chemo or treatment will cause extra symptoms. My dh had palliative chemo for a cancer with no known treatment regime and it was the wrong decision in retrospect. He was on 30 different meds in the end to manage the side effects of his chemo regime.

It’s his death and his daughter and you have no right to interfere because you don’t agree with it. If you get cancer you can decide how you handle it but you have no right to tell his daughter.

Given the sheer level of trauma she has suffered already, I would tell her. I realise that this would be an enormous betrayal to a brother- but I think losing a parent to suicide is so tough, to let her potentially experience another situation of complicated grief wouldn’t be fair, honestly.

It’s his illness and his daughter - you have no right to share his news. Perhaps he plans to tell her once she is home and wants her last memory of him to be a joyful one. You would be depriving them both of this. You may not agree with his decision, but it is his decision to make.

Could you allude to it? Say he’s not been well and seeing lots of doctors and maybe she should talk to him? So you’re not giving away the diagnosis but offering her the chance to ask him outright and also introducing the idea of his poor health?

One of my parents did this - didn’t tell us children (late teens at the time) or their siblings and parents how unwell they were. We all literally found out 3 days before they died how unwell they really were.

It was the most awful shock and I don’t think I’ve forgiven either of my parents nearly 30 years on. My auntie, uncle and grandparents never forgave us - they didn’t believe that we didn’t know either.

please, please find a way for his dd to become suspicious and start asking questions.

Sorry to flop about on this OP but it is a tough question. All my family do now know. So this withholding period was a matter of weeks till he felt ready. I don’t now have that burden.

I’ve been thinking about this v honestly and there are some wishes my brother has had that I didn’t agree with for example, and didn’t carry out. For example not bringing certain foods to hospital that were bad for him even though he requested. And right now I won’t visit him if he isn’t dressed. I just can’t do it….he didn’t want me to leave the room but I did.

So no I’m not agreeing with every request of a dying man……

If I was asked to keep silent until after he died…. to my mind that’s a huge ask. And nonsensical in the light of the physical changes all of us see. Mum knew my brother was dying before she was told- she could see his emaciated body…
Silence is only possible in your case because yr niece lives abroad. Every call and convo you have with yr niece you are actively withholding info that is life changing for her. You have no idea what she might wish to do- maybe stay with her dad for those few months, or maybe bring her wedding plans forward so he can take part while he still can. Or maybe she will make other decisions. But all her decisions now are not counting are they- because she doesn’t have all the info…..She has no agency and she is being treated like a small child.
Shes not a child that needs protection she’s a grown adult.

As @HipHipWhoRay said, she has already suffered death of a parent from suicide. Awful. Getting advance knowledge may be helpful for her.
Good luck OP.

Yes I agree with this - am flabbergasted that people think he has no rights or autonomy over who, how and when he shares his sad news. It doesn't matter that they would do it differently, and they don’t have to agree, but he will have his reasons. OP and fam will have to sit with their knowledge - it’s not about them or their guilt at knowing something the DD doesn’t.

Am sure he wants her visit to be a fond memory making trip that is about her and her fiancé - he may plan to tell her in a few weeks once she is home and he knows she is happy with her partner.

I would say to your brother, I respect your decision not to tell her, but you have to respect that I won’t lie to her.
If she asks about her father, his health, how he’s been - simply direct her to her father to ask the question. Don’t lie and say he’s doing well etc. She will soon see something is up, and the right conversations will happen.

I agree with this.

You cannot tell her, however I would sit down with him and ask him to write a letter to be given to her after his death. The letter should tell her why he made the decision to keep it from her. Also ask him to tell her that he begged you not to tell and bot to blame you from keeping his secret.

When he is gone she will have a lot of questions and she deserves answers.