Shingles bell for xmas and Mil

[arcticpandas]

My 15 y old son has got the shingles. My Mil says he can't come to hers because she's afraid. I have told her it is not contagieus unless she licks his back (only on back) because she has already had chicken pox as has the rest of the family.

She is convinced that it is contagieus even though I have sent her nhs links "oh, I don't care about the net" because she is adamant she got it from someone in her thirties and it was extremely painful. She does anecdotal evidence rather than scientific ex insists on antibiotics for viral infections so you can't reason with her. She's normally a lovely woman and a wonderful grandma but my son is so sad if he has to stay home for christmas (with me ofcourse). Personally I don't care but since christmas is important for him I'm frustrated with her stance on this. So DH and ds2 will go and ds1 will he heartbroken. To add: he's autistic and very immature, I doubt his brother would be as upset as him for ex.

Am I unreasonable to think that Mil should follow scientific guidance rather than her own "experiences"?

(And why didn't she get the vaccine when she went to have her covid and flu jab if she's so worried about it- they do all three and it's on a big sign in our pharmacy we both go to).

Wtf.
Chickenpox is the primary infection which sits in the body and comes out as shingles when you are older, stressed, immune system impaired.
You cannot catch shingles.

Your DH may be her only son but he is your only husband & the only father of your 2 children. If she will not listen to reason & allow her grandchild with shingles to visit then she does not get your DH, the 2 grandsons & you. Your DH is disregarding his sick son, you his wife & his other son. Maybe more of a husband problem rather than a MIL problem.

Yep, dismissing the genuine fear of an old person who will have a compromised immune system does not have a very Christmassy feel to it.

And according to Mayo Clinic people CAN catch chickenpox from him, so unless everyone is fine with that it's not ok to turn up.

It would hurt nobody at all for OPS family to ALL just stay home.

Dh is her only son he has to go.

Dh is also your only husband. Also your son's only father.

This is nuts.

I can understand your MIL wanting to be careful - shingles/chicken pox risk is hard to understand. But why on earth does she, you, your dh and your other son think this means you and DS stay home alone while they go off to celebrate christmas as usual?? In my family and in my dh's family this would mean "oh so sorry you can't join us but lets all get together as soon as he is shingle free.

Why wouldn't your dh prefer to stay with you and his son for xmas?????

Honestly Mumsnet absolutely astounds me sometimes. People are mental. Your 15 year old should definitely be prioritised in this case. Let your MIL be alone so she doesn't catch it (although she can't)...but if my DH was going to take younger son to this shit show I'd be fuming. If ended up being just me and DS15 I'd aim to make it allll about him. His food choice, film choice, music choice etc...make him realise mum got his back. And realise DH needs to get a bloody grip and start rethinking his life

Shingles is contagious IF you are at risk. How bad your first bout of pox was is really important factor.

My DS got the mildest form of chicken pox ever... he had 3 blisters on his whole body all in the same 2 inch area on his back. We weren't even 100% it was chicken pox because I have never seen it so mild and he wasn't sick.

Well about 5 years later he got singles during a big school outbreak of chicken pox, he had more blisters with shingles but all in the exact same original spot. Dr and school said to just stick an bandage over it and carry on as he was otherwise perfectly healthy.

He got like 1 blister again when my younger 2 got chicken pox, once again seemed fine though.

Basically he had such a weak variant that he didn't get 'proper' immunity and can just keep re-catching it the same as he had it originally but he has such a strong immune system that it luckily doesn't bother him.

Advice is to avoid the immuno-compromised but otherwise carry on. Keep it clean but bandage to avoid spreading fluid.

I think that's what would be described by professionals as "a coincidence".

Also, the husband could be carrying chickenpox virus even if he is showing no symptoms as shingles can give people chickenpox.

"Chickenpox (varicella) is a highly contagious disease caused by a virus. It spreads easily from person to person if they are not immune. Chickenpox causes a rash with blisters that can spread the disease through direct contact. This disease can travel through the air when people cough, sneeze, talk, or laugh. It can also spread when items with saliva on them are shared. Items include cups, bottles, cans, forks, spoons, and more. Cough or sneeze into a tissue or your elbow. Put used tissues in a lined waste bin or a trash can with a lid. This will help reduce the risk of germs spreading in the air and on surfaces."

From https: //www dot health dot ny dot gov/diseases/communicable/chickenpox/fact_sheet.htm

And people CAN and DO get chickenpox twice. Not common, but far more of a concern than getting shingles from someone with shingles - which most seem to agree is not a thing.
https :// www. dot healthline.com/health/can-you-get-chickenpox-twice

And you CAN be a carrier for chickenpox without having any symptoms, as it can take days for symptoms to develop.

So if Gran is actually truly worried about catching a communicable disease, none of them should be visiting at all.

She's clearly terrified of shingles after a horrible experience. So am I. As a child I witnessed my strong, calm grandfather in complete agony rolling on the floor in distress. He had shingles in his face and behind his eyes. When I hear of people killing themselves, I think of him. I imagine that he was close to that.
I was 70 last week and I can't wait to get the vaccine.

I'm guessing that your MIL was scared that the vaccine might trigger it (in the same way that the flu jab can cause a mild flu-like reaction).

This sounds like serious health anxiety, to me.

So going with MIL’s thinking it’s contagious- you all have to stay at home.
If she accepts it’s not you can all go if DS Is feeling ok.
Put the logic to her and your DH

But she’s already said her DS isn’t bothered about other family members not being at home, it’s about his Christmas not being where it usually is

I've had shingles and it was awful. And it caused serious nerve pain which was agonisingly painful for 2 weeks when I could hardly sleep and that was post 2 weeks of flu symptoms and the blotches starting to heal. In short, I was really ill for a month. Seek advice from the shingles society they have a helpline but if I was your mother in law I wouldn't be taking the risk. I still have scarring and occasional mild nerve pain a year later. Incidentally I met my brother 3 weeks after my first symptoms and by the beginning of the following week he had spots on his face around his eyes which turned out to be shingles. He did say he was feeling ill beforehand so it was likely a coincidence but you don't want a situation where you feel responsible for making someone ill. In fact, in his case there was a serious risk it was going to permanently damage his eyesight.

I’ve had chicken pox twice……

Sorry, things sounds tough, but love the OP, very clever

I'm really shocked that your MIL has banned one of your children from going to her house for Christmas but your husband and other son would still go without you.

Any normal family would stay at home together. If your MIL is devastated then that's tough luck, she made her choice.
What kind of husband would put his mother above his wife and child at Christmas?

is it possible that contact with the chickenpox virus could cause it to reactivate in your MIL? i guess shingles isn't technically contagious, but is there any way the virus itself could trigger it? i'm no medical expert, but even though you can't literally catch shingles from someone, if an immuno compromised person (like an elderly person) has contact with the chickenpox virus and it makes them sick again, or even just puts pressure on their immune system, then couldn't that cause shingles as a knock-on effect? i did have a quick look on nhs websites and it recommends to stay away from immuno compromised people if you have shingles

You are right in everything that you have said. Granny already carries immunity to the varicella‑zoster virus (the virus that causes both chickenpox and shingles) so she cannot catch chickenpox again nor can she catch shingles from someone else, because shingles is a reactivation of the virus already in her own body — not something you catch from others.

A person with shingles can only spread the virus if someone touches the fluid from the blisters, and even then, the only thing they could cause is chickenpox in someone who has never had it.

It’s generally safe for your son to visit her, as long as, his rash is covered with clothing or a dressing, there is no direct contact with the blisters (so no licking) and he washes his hands regularly.

Since the grandmother has had chickenpox, she is not at risk but if she is adamant she is, I'm afraid I would be using her rationale against her. If she believes that although she has already had chickenpox, she can catch shingles from your son, then surely that means that the rest of your family could have shingles (you, Dad, siblings, as they live with your son) and not yet know it (and on that basis), none can go to hers at Christmas to protect her?

Following her rationale, If someone is exposed to shingles and gets chickenpox, they won’t be contagious immediately and they willy become contagious roughly 9–20 days after exposure, depending on when their rash begins.

Unless of course she wants to review the medical guidance which says it is fine for the whole family to visit as they have all had chickenpox including her?

However there is one caveat to this. If the granny has a severely weakened immune system (for example, from chemotherapy, high‑dose steroids, or certain illnesses), it’s always wise to check with her doctor — not because she could “catch” shingles, but because her immune system may be more vulnerable in general.

You can only get shingles if you have already had chickenpox!

I had this in May and still have numbness and the odd tingle or two. I had chicken pox when I was 10 and 25 years later this bloody flares up. I hope he recovers quickly, it is rubbish.

Yep, people can and DO get chicken pox twice. They can also get it if they have been vaccinated. Having chicken pox or getting vaccinated massively reduces your chances of getting it - but you still can.

And shingles CAN give people chicken pox.

You can only get shingles if you’ve had chicken pox. It’s the chicken pox virus in your system that is reactivated when you get shingles.

Not sure if you have read the whole thread, @seafoamhair, but the blisters are on the DS’s back. Granny won’t be affected in any way.

Scientific impossibility.

You're being more mature and kind to MIL than I would be, I think. It seems such an over-reaction to break up your family Christmas especially when your son has nearly a week of getting better and crusting up between now and Christmas still. How much virus is still going to be shed in a week's time? Apologies if I've missed it but have you talked with her about whether it might be ok for him to come if the rash is crusted over? It's impossible to catch it from his back, and it's impossible to catch it even from licking his back when fully crusted over. Sure she doesn't accept one impossibility as impossible enough, but if it's impossible for 2 different reasons by Thurs - nearly a week away - might that be acceptable? I get what you're saying though, if you can't convince her than she needs antibiotics for a virus then what hope have you got?

If your husband really must go I would say he should seriously limit the time he spends at his mum's. You all deserve to be together on Christmas too. I'm not sure what your timings are but maybe he could spend the whole morning with you and get back well before teatime so you can still have several hours of being all together.

Silly question but are you absolutely sure your MIL would rather split up her son from his own wife and son - on Christmas day - than have a smaller Christmas day without him? I just wonder if being the reason they are apart might be more devastating for her than seeing your husband on boxing day instead. People can get self absorbed I know, but she sounds like a lovely lady who loves her grandson so it just sounds a bit off key that she would put her own wish to see your husband above her 15 year old grandson seeing his dad.

My mother had it and it was absolutely bloody awful. Seriously. Id let your mil deal with it in her own way. You cant get pissed off with someone else's attitude to their own health just because it doesnt suit your plans.