Page 18 | Just been told to remove my pronouns from my Teams profile

Horrace · 2025-12-18T10:11:42+00:00

I'm weak 🤣 My manager just phoned me to say there has been some serious complaints made about me that he must urgently address. I panicked. In the Pronouns section of my Teams profile, I have 'Take a Wild Guess' Its been there for a few years. Its finally been noticed and I've been told to take it down because it's made someone or more than one possibly, FEARFUL of me.

ThatBlackCat · 18/12/2025 14:46

DeathBanana · 18/12/2025 14:42

That would be weird and like you’d fallen into 1952

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How is "Ms" from 1952? If they said Miss or Mrs you might have a point. But Ms is a common modern formal term.

justpassmethemouse · 18/12/2025 14:51

LiftAndCoast · 18/12/2025 14:45

Trans means that you have a gender identity that does not align with your biological sex. 'Cis' means that you have a gender identity that does align with your biological sex. So what does that mean? 'Gender identity' itself is about feelings, characteristics, and personal expression.

I don't have a gender identity. When you call me 'cis' you're assuming that I have a feminine gender identity to match my female body, when in fact I have experienced femininity as oppression since I was a very small girl. I don't identify as loving high heels and shopping, as being emotional or submissive, or with most of the other characteristics that have been culturally marked as feminine. The same characteristics that many transwomen say are what makes them women.*

As a woman who rejects sex role stereotypes (which is what we used to call this 'gender' business) and who is a feminist, yes, calling me 'cis' offends me.

*It's invariably some combination of liking feminine clothes, hair, and makeup, liking a sexually submissive role (see 'sissies' - or don't, unless you have a strong stomach), or else some kind of inchoate feeling they claim is womanhood, to which I say firstly that we're individuals, not a hive mind sharing the same womanly feelings, and secondly, no man knows how it feels to be any woman, any more than I know how it feels to be a man, a horse, or a tree. He might know how it feels to be uncomfortable with male stereotypes or with his male body. That's not the same as being female.

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I’m not sure you can not have a gender identity? Cis and trans are opposites and you’ll have to be one or the other, surely? Even an agender intersex person would have had male or female recorded on the birth certificate, so if they now identify as agender, that would fall under trans.

Either way, your gender identity is your decision and most people will be respectful and describe you as your prefer.

DeathBanana · 18/12/2025 14:52

ThatBlackCat · 18/12/2025 14:46

How is "Ms" from 1952? If they said Miss or Mrs you might have a point. But Ms is a common modern formal term.

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It would be very unusual to include any kind of prefix on your email signature here in the year 2025. Have you spent much time in the modern workplace?

5128gap · 18/12/2025 14:52

DeathBanana · 18/12/2025 14:39

It’s difficult to argue that sex is important and should not be vague at the same time resisting people specifying their sex when it may not be clear. Eg you have Alex, Sam, Faith or Tejas who you may communicate with daily but haven’t actually seen or spoken in person to, giving you the heads up to which sex they are 🤷🏼‍♀️

”I’ve spoken to Jivan and he / she said it would be done by the end of the week”. It’s handy to know right?

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Its not difficult to argue at all. All that's required is an understanding that sometimes it matters a great deal whether a person is female or male, such as when you're playing against them in sport, or sharing a prison cell or a rape crisis centre with them. And sometimes it doesn't matter at all. Like when you're emailing to ask a question about last quarters sales figures.

DeathBanana · 18/12/2025 14:56

5128gap · 18/12/2025 14:52

Its not difficult to argue at all. All that's required is an understanding that sometimes it matters a great deal whether a person is female or male, such as when you're playing against them in sport, or sharing a prison cell or a rape crisis centre with them. And sometimes it doesn't matter at all. Like when you're emailing to ask a question about last quarters sales figures.

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Normal discourse conventions would suggest it is entirely useful to know whether your colleagues should be referred to as he / she. Or should we be using they as a blanket term? I thought we were pointing and laughing at that too.

Plateofcrumbs · 18/12/2025 14:57

ThatBlackCat · 18/12/2025 14:46

How is "Ms" from 1952? If they said Miss or Mrs you might have a point. But Ms is a common modern formal term.

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Titles are so rarely used in most work environments, it's a formality that would seem very antiquated, And as I've previously mentioned Dr is not going to aid anyone's understanding.

People seem to be going to ridiculous lengths to avoid accepting that displaying pronouns can just be straightforwardly useful and not some kind of flag-waving ideological act.

chocolatemademefat · 18/12/2025 14:59

Change it to none of your feckin business. Can’t be arsed with the pronouns rubbish - how have we managed for years without them?

Helleofabore · 18/12/2025 14:59

DeathBanana · 18/12/2025 14:39

It’s difficult to argue that sex is important and should not be vague at the same time resisting people specifying their sex when it may not be clear. Eg you have Alex, Sam, Faith or Tejas who you may communicate with daily but haven’t actually seen or spoken in person to, giving you the heads up to which sex they are 🤷🏼‍♀️

”I’ve spoken to Jivan and he / she said it would be done by the end of the week”. It’s handy to know right?

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No, it is not difficult. It is only important to know the sex of someone when the sex of a person is important to know.

itsthetea · 18/12/2025 15:00

You can quite easily not have a gender identity and I think is is very common in women who reject gender full stop - who have had gender used to harm them by some form of disrespect for their capabilities because they are female bodied.

don’t make assumptions, don’t tie me in a bucket with other women for any other reason than my sex but don’t disregard my sex either because that leads to male default , it leads to women’s health being ignored , opportunities for women limited, rape tends to be of women

see accepting a transgender identity / which I accept is probably the bucket under which these women should fall by some logic / means rejecting their femaleness in some way - diminsihing the impact their femaleness has and continues to have on their lives

and let’s face it for anyone to treat me as anything but female would require me to undergo major surgery and take harmful hormones and why should I do that ? I am not broken. The gender norm is what’s wrong

LiftAndCoast · 18/12/2025 15:02

justpassmethemouse · 18/12/2025 14:51

I’m not sure you can not have a gender identity? Cis and trans are opposites and you’ll have to be one or the other, surely? Even an agender intersex person would have had male or female recorded on the birth certificate, so if they now identify as agender, that would fall under trans.

Either way, your gender identity is your decision and most people will be respectful and describe you as your prefer.

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Well, I don't have one.

By the logic of the ideology, yes, most GC people would fall under 'agender' (person without a gender identity, right?) and therefore be trans. That does sort of get ignored, usually, because it would shift the meaning of trans if suddenly it covered a lot of middle-aged feminists who don't have gender identities and don't think the concept should be given so much importance.

HeadyLamarr · 18/12/2025 15:04

justpassmethemouse · 18/12/2025 14:51

I’m not sure you can not have a gender identity? Cis and trans are opposites and you’ll have to be one or the other, surely? Even an agender intersex person would have had male or female recorded on the birth certificate, so if they now identify as agender, that would fall under trans.

Either way, your gender identity is your decision and most people will be respectful and describe you as your prefer.

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Millions of people do not have a gender identity. In fact, I suggest the vast majority of people don't.

I have a sex, and I have a personality. I don't have a gender identity because gender is an externally imposed set of societal expectations and I'm not accepting that nonsense as part of myself.

I don't have a soul either. Because I don't believe were are spiritual entities in a corporeal meat suit. I am my body, my body is me.

MissMountshafft · 18/12/2025 15:06

whittingtonmum · 18/12/2025 10:22

I think this can be interpreted as ridiculing those who share their preferred pronouns at work. I would not call this is professional behaviour or think it's acceptable in the workplace. If I were your manager I would have asked you to take this down before complaints come in. You don't have to share your preferred pronouns if you don't wish to do so but 'take a wild guess' is not appropriate in the workplace. No doubt transphopbic mumsnetters will disagree but wonder how many of them work professionally in environments where diversity and inclusion are regarded as part of a professional business environment.

Well said!

justpassmethemouse · 18/12/2025 15:07

LiftAndCoast · 18/12/2025 15:02

Well, I don't have one.

By the logic of the ideology, yes, most GC people would fall under 'agender' (person without a gender identity, right?) and therefore be trans. That does sort of get ignored, usually, because it would shift the meaning of trans if suddenly it covered a lot of middle-aged feminists who don't have gender identities and don't think the concept should be given so much importance.

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Okay great! So that would follow that you prefer they/them pronouns? Or other neo pronouns? 😊 Not telling you what you should or shouldn’t do, as I said, it’s your choice.

Plateofcrumbs · 18/12/2025 15:11

DeathBanana · 18/12/2025 14:56

Normal discourse conventions would suggest it is entirely useful to know whether your colleagues should be referred to as he / she. Or should we be using they as a blanket term? I thought we were pointing and laughing at that too.

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Our work email signatures have the pronunciation of our name and our pronouns. Just because it makes everyone's life a little bit easier and it's nice to know when you're talking about one of you're colleagues you're not getting their name or sex wrong.

We could just refer to people as "employee 2359" or something and avoid all this fuss about caring about people's names and sex I guess.

JellySaurus · 18/12/2025 15:11

justpassmethemouse · 18/12/2025 14:51

I’m not sure you can not have a gender identity? Cis and trans are opposites and you’ll have to be one or the other, surely? Even an agender intersex person would have had male or female recorded on the birth certificate, so if they now identify as agender, that would fall under trans.

Either way, your gender identity is your decision and most people will be respectful and describe you as your prefer.

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I’m not sure you can not have a gender identity? Cis and trans are opposites and you’ll have to be one or the other, surely?

”Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
”Neither. I’m an atheist.”
”But are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist?”

lifeturnsonadime · 18/12/2025 15:11

justpassmethemouse · 18/12/2025 15:07

Okay great! So that would follow that you prefer they/them pronouns? Or other neo pronouns? 😊 Not telling you what you should or shouldn’t do, as I said, it’s your choice.

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Well that's a load of bollocks.

Female pronouns relate to sex.

I refer to my golden retriever bitch as she/ her, she definitely does not have a gender!

EasternStandard · 18/12/2025 15:12

justpassmethemouse · 18/12/2025 14:51

I’m not sure you can not have a gender identity? Cis and trans are opposites and you’ll have to be one or the other, surely? Even an agender intersex person would have had male or female recorded on the birth certificate, so if they now identify as agender, that would fall under trans.

Either way, your gender identity is your decision and most people will be respectful and describe you as your prefer.

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It’s easy not to have a ‘gender identity’ because most people know they have a sex and a personality. You are using a framework which isn’t wanted by many women.

JellySaurus · 18/12/2025 15:12

@HorracePut your pronouns down as I/me. Perfectly accurate.

justpassmethemouse · 18/12/2025 15:13

JellySaurus · 18/12/2025 15:11

I’m not sure you can not have a gender identity? Cis and trans are opposites and you’ll have to be one or the other, surely?

”Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
”Neither. I’m an atheist.”
”But are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist?”

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Equivalent would be “What is your religious affiliation”, where atheist is an acceptable answer, as is agnostic.

5128gap · 18/12/2025 15:14

DeathBanana · 18/12/2025 14:56

Normal discourse conventions would suggest it is entirely useful to know whether your colleagues should be referred to as he / she. Or should we be using they as a blanket term? I thought we were pointing and laughing at that too.

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What is 'normal' is to refer to known males as 'he' and known females as 'she'. People of unknown sex are referred to as 'they'. I don't think anyone laughs and points at the use of 'they' for a person of unknown sex, its entirely reasonable and correct. It's the use of 'they' when sex is obvious that is criticised.

Helleofabore · 18/12/2025 15:14

justpassmethemouse · 18/12/2025 14:51

I’m not sure you can not have a gender identity? Cis and trans are opposites and you’ll have to be one or the other, surely? Even an agender intersex person would have had male or female recorded on the birth certificate, so if they now identify as agender, that would fall under trans.

Either way, your gender identity is your decision and most people will be respectful and describe you as your prefer.

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"I’m not sure you can not have a gender identity? Cis and trans are opposites and you’ll have to be one or the other, surely?"

No. Gender identity is based on some one's personal philosophical belief that there are 'gender identities'. Not only that, but no gender identity is definable so that someone understands what it is.

What is an 'agender intersex' person? Are you talking about someone who has a Difference of Sex Development? In other words, a medical condition that is clearly defined and where every person with a DSD can still be categorised as either male or female?

"Either way, your gender identity is your decision and most people will be respectful and describe you as your prefer."

Why is it respectful to describe someone as being 'female' and use female language when they are male? That is respect only going one direction and it is not respectful to the person who needs to use accurate language in their communication with others.

As shown on earlier pages, 'cis' is meaningless. It was a word that a group of people decided to use for their own purpose that did not fit the original purpose at all. Its use is just as meaningless as the word has become.

HeadyLamarr · 18/12/2025 15:18

justpassmethemouse · 18/12/2025 15:07

Okay great! So that would follow that you prefer they/them pronouns? Or other neo pronouns? 😊 Not telling you what you should or shouldn’t do, as I said, it’s your choice.

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I don't think it's terribly polite to dictate how people ought to refer to me.

My autistic son uses 'they' for absolutely everyone because it seems less stressful to him than to try and keep track of people's preferences. He gets very wound up about 'getting it wrong' so that's his solution.

I used sex-based pronouns for everyone I'm referring to in the third person because that's the syntax I prefer. I like clarity about the sex of person I'm describing. Other people are free to make their own choices about the language they use.

I think preferred pronouns are about as relevant as favourite colour or preferred form of exercise - I don't need to know that about anyone because it's not my business.

Helleofabore · 18/12/2025 15:18

justpassmethemouse · 18/12/2025 15:07

Okay great! So that would follow that you prefer they/them pronouns? Or other neo pronouns? 😊 Not telling you what you should or shouldn’t do, as I said, it’s your choice.

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No. The poster just told you that they don't have a gender identity. Many of us don't have gender identities.

YOU have just decided what gender identity LiftAndCoast and many of us have using your own beliefs. It is not a 'choice' in that there is no objective thing as a gender identity. It is only based on one person's belief.

YorkshireGoldDrinker · 18/12/2025 15:20

In a professional setting, I wouldn't even bother to fill those fields out. If anyone complains, then I'll complain. It's discrimination on the grounds of an insane militant gender ideology.

whittingtonmum · 18/12/2025 15:20

Ddakji · 18/12/2025 14:08

It might interest you to know that the vast majority of employment tribunals on the basis of gender critical belief find in favour of the gender critical employee. That would be quite a risky step for the employer to take, to suggest that laughing at an ideology is bullying or harassment.

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The grievance could also be brought by the person who has complained already especially if behaviour persists. And if OP fancies the risk of that and later on heading to an employment tribunal to have her day in court by all means she can continue to display her current attitude and behaviour in the workplace.

Most people would consider this route unsatisfactory career progression but it depends what you value in life and work.