To think that antisemitism now needs to be tackled in the strongest possible way?

[LucyWestenra]

The Bondi thread in chat was eye opening.

Forty pages and a lot of it whataboutery, excuses and vile antisemitism.

It’s disgusting.

It needs to be called out. It needs to be rooted out.

I feel so sorry for the Jewish communities everywhere. How can they possibly feel safe?

This is what I don't understand. If Christ hadn't been killed and then rose again, he's just another community leader/preacher rather than the Son of God and Christianity wouldn't exist. Surely the Jews/Roman who killed Christ must have been part of plan. Surely even the most stupid and bigoted Christian could understand that?

Who TF are the 20% people who don't agree?
How much more evidence do you need?

The problem we have is that any support for the Palestinian cause or any criticism of Netanyahu is incorrectly labelled as anti semitic. Until there is a definition of antisemitism that any reasonable person could agree with, there is no way of knowing where to start when trying to tackle it.

Do not treat this as a stand alone comment as I was responding to another poster. I am quite correct in saying that the Jewish people historically bore the blame for the execution of Jesus. Do you really want to argue about historical fact? I also suggest you read my original post (which is the absolute antithesis of anti semitic) before you comment any further and make yourself look foolish.

Oh sure, we can’t do anything about the Holocaust denial or the ‘Jews did 9/11’ or ‘Keir Starmer’s policy on Israel is being decided by his Jewish wife’ because it’s literally impossible to decide what’s antisemitic and what’s legitimate criticism of Israel.

People have just been murdered. Maybe laying off chants of ‘Globalise the Intifada’ would be a good start.

Wow.

😮

He’s not the Messiah! He’s a very naughty boy!

It's really scary. Family members were standing guard outside synagogue (the security you see outside is usually members taking turns) the day of the Manchester attack. There are thousands of incidents of violence and discrimination against Jewish people where we live that are just part of daily life - they're not reported on, or if they are, people ignore or excuse it. There is also so much propaganda and blatant misinformation circulated that you just can't fight it.

A big part of the problem is that it's just not a popular or politically correct issue, and a lot of effort has been made to disseminate antisemitic beliefs in Western higher education, so people don't speak out against it or even disagree with it.

No, this is not the problem we have.

The problem we have is

1. antisemitism from people who are openly antisemitic and proud of it.

2. antisemitism from people who know they are antisemitic but don’t admit it, justifying it to themselves as ‘criticism of Israel’ and the like.

3. antisemitism from #bekind idiots who, despite making the conflict in Gaza a massive part of their identity, know nothing about antisemitism and don’t care to learn, despite their penchant for lecturing others on history.

4. antisemitism from ignorant people - some well-meaning - who simply don’t understand its insidious nature and thereby continue to allow it to thrive and spread, perhaps believing some of the blood libels spread by the first three groups.

We had EDI training planned at my old job - the person who booked it is a classic ‘right side of history’ virtue-signaller, who cares very very much about everyone except women who don’t want men in their spaces, and Jews - I asked if it would cover antisemitism and even asking the question made people uncomfortable. Thankfully I left before the training. But that’s a massive problem. Lack of understanding of what antisemitism is and actively avoiding even engaging.

Yes!

Thank you!

Maybe laying off chants of ‘Globalise the Intifada’ would be a good start.

Yes, it would. I’ve genuinely never heard that chant when I’ve been on marches in support of Palestine, and if I did I’d distance myself from it.

If you have advice about how to openly support the Palestinian right to a state without automatically being considered antisemitic, I’d be interested to hear it.

The problem we have is that any support for the Palestinian cause or any criticism of Netanyahu is incorrectly labelled as anti semitic.
This is often trotted out but it's categorically untrue.

So which particular parts of the actual (not imagined as illustrated in the above quote) definition of antisemitism are so very difficult for any reasonable people to agree with? That prevents them from doing anything at all to tackle antisemitism because it's not been defined according to their liking/narrative?

👏

Whatever parts it is that get people labelled as antisemitic for protesting their government’s involvement with a country that is committing genocide.

I don’t know what excuses people use to claim that support for Palestine against a government that wants to wipe out it’s existence is the same as anti semitism, but they appear to exist in many minds.

Easy. Just say "I support the Palestinian right to a state." No antisemitism required.

Was it deleted? Chilling how people can be hateful after a mass murder...

I don't think boycotting Israel for Eurovision is inherently anti Semitic nor does it mean those countries think Israel shouldn't fight Hamas.

But in practice, so many 'pro Palestinians' are not really trying to help Palestinians but just seem to blindly hate Jews, Israel is often a cover

Criticism of Likud's actions is NOT anti Semitic but people need to be VERY discerning given how much anti Semitism is being amplified rn.

...alongside Israel as a state.

Because there are an increasing number of people on those marches who mean 'From the River to the Sea' as being a single, Palestinian state.

My grandmother (93 now) visited a Jewish school I think around the 70s. She said people were extremely concerned about security then, and with good reason...😢

Googling brings up examples of government tamping up security for Jewish schools in 2016 and 2010. Those are probably not the only times.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-manchester-37422589

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11960291

That’s what the vast majority of people are trying to do when they’re told they’re on ‘hate marches’.

Perhaps you could advise on how to challenge antisemitism without being accused of being pro the slaughter of babies. Arseholes on both sides here.

No globalise the intifada? No from the river to the sea? No death to the IDF? No 'Yemen Yemen make us proud, turn another ship around'?

What do they chant on the marches you're on?

Do you see how claiming that the words, sentiments and actions of a minority of extremists in the Israeli government and society are representative of the entire Israeli government and the whole country which hasn't actually "wiped out" any other group's existence might be problematic?

Would you say that the words, sentiments and actions of Hamas, PIJ etc, whose stated wish is to wipe Jews off the face of the earth, are representative of the entire Palestinian government, society and territories? If not, why not? What's the difference for you?

No racism.
No genocide.
love and world peace by tea time

jews and Muslims are involved in a cycle of hate and destruction and until you accept that it’s not one side blameless and the other evil murderers but a good mix of evil on both sides nothing will change no matter how hard people try. And in the meantime thousands of innocent lives will be lost every year.

No globalise the intifada? No from the river to the sea? No death to the IDF? No 'Yemen Yemen make us proud, turn another ship around'?

The first of those is the only one I haven’t heard, but I’ve been unable to go recently. I don’t join in with chants I’ve heard that I don’t like, but tbh, I’m ok with death to the IDF as a chant because I’ve listened to the doctors who have treated children who have been used as target practice, and it is clear that they behave like barbarians.