To think that antisemitism now needs to be tackled in the strongest possible way?

[LucyWestenra]

The Bondi thread in chat was eye opening.

Forty pages and a lot of it whataboutery, excuses and vile antisemitism.

It’s disgusting.

It needs to be called out. It needs to be rooted out.

I feel so sorry for the Jewish communities everywhere. How can they possibly feel safe?

Your last paragraph sums it up perfectly I think.

Really really well said.

1. UK and the rest of Europe were also anti-Semitic.
2. It was only after the war started and territory was taken that the killing truly began in earnest with the Einsatzgruppen and extermination camps. Wannsee conference and the industrialisation of murder wasn't really out in the open.

Sure, even before Kristallnacht there was obvious extreme anti-Semitic persecution but others' domestic policy needs to be really severe to propel other countries to take extreme action.

Yes. But not loudly because we are generally scared of the Muslim reaction.

I see the fact that we are actually talking about this openly now as a positive step in the right direction.

Just a few years ago this would have been unthinkable.

What some people are failing to see is that while it might be Islamists who have been killing Jews recently, blaming Islamists and claiming it's to do with Israel is being completely blind to the millennia-long hatred of Jews by pretty much everyone. Hitler wasn't an Islamist. When Edward I expelled all the Jews from England in 1290 (they weren't let back in till 1656) that wasn't anything to do with Israel. And the same old same old conspiracy theories about Jews are being repackaged and recirculated today simply replacing the word 'Jew' with Zionist', whether it's killing babies, controlling the media, influencing governments or secretly ruling the world. Zionist has long been used as a code-word for 'Jew' by anti-semites. The new 'I'm not antisemitic, I'm antizionist' lot should look up what it means in a dictionary. A lot of them seem to think that Zionist means rabid supporter of Netanyahu and his actions in Gaza and feel free to spout the most hateful bile about Zionists when it doesn't mean supporting Netanyahu at all, while people who use Zionist to mean Jew spout the exact same hateful bile.

You have the most dreadful antisemitism on the left being denied or covered up by the left because the left are meant to be the goodies. I've seen all sorts of bullshit antisemitic conspiracy theories on MN, holocaust denial, October 7th denial, Jews did 9/11, Keir Starmer is being controlled by his wife, just blatant stuff but whenever you call it out someone piously prattles 'criticism of Israel isn't antisemitism' as if that was all that was ever said.

So going on about Islamists (which I'm sure suits some people perfectly well) is completely missing the bigger, far wider and much more historical picture.

Completely. Am Jewish and was appalled at that thread.
Do I feel safe? In my area, yes because I live in an area with many other Jewish people. Until recently I’ve worked in Jewish organisations or closely aligned charities so I was v much in a ‘bubble’.

In wider society, not really anymore - so much hate about and the UK is no where aw bad as some other countries such as Ireland and the Netherlands- u know people who live in both countries who tell me how awful it is.

Im just a normal middle-aged person going about her business like anyone else.

Antisemitism had been around much longer than Israel has existed - pogroms, kristallnacht, the holocaust, and even way further back in the Middle Ages. It’s endemic and needs to stop now.

We are a tiny minority and people are obsessed with us, why?

It’s been like this for years. My DCs went to a Jewish secondary which is like Fort Knox in its level of security. They’re now in their 20s, it’s not a post Oct 7 thing, but security has been ramped up since.

So Ireland and the Netherlands are even worse?

I’m sorry, I don’t know that much about it all.

The whole situation is really tragic. How the hell have we not learned anything?

See I find this really shocking.

People always talk about Islamophobia, but I think it’s safe to say that the Jewish community face so much more hate.

And I know there are people who say it’s right that Spain, Ireland and Latvia have withdrawn from Eurovision because Russia has also been ostracised on the world stage, but no. Not even remotely comparable.

Russia invaded a sovereign country.

Israel was attacked in the most despicable manner on 07 October 23.

Honestly, sometimes it feels like people can’t remember this. (Or choose not to)

OP judging by the Bondi threads there are people posting who choose not to remember 7 October 2023.

Yep.

If there's something good that can come out of this awful event I hope it's some proper resources into tackling anti-Semitism

It was beyond disgusting what happened and it makes me so angry when I think about it.

✡️

One can hope!

Honestly, if you replace the words ‘Jew’ or ‘Jewish’ with ‘Muslims’ or ‘Blacks’ in some posts people would say it’s akin to a hate crime.

In Ireland there is a long running and emotive support for the Palestinian cause because of a perceived affinity between Ireland's struggle against Britain and Palestine's against Isreal.

That, combined with the fact there is no Jewish population to speak of for anyone to get to know, means it can be an uncomfortable place to be Jewish, sadly.

I haven't read the thread, but you don't surprise me. These are dark times for sure.

Anti semitism has little to do with Gaza or the foundation of Israel. It is a prejudice hard wired into the human psyche. They killed Christ, became stateless and were demonised for usury (even though Kings and Princes were more than happy to use their services). They were the convenient scape goat when plague struck or crops failed and an easy target to expel, murder or relieve of their goods due to their strict adherence to the laws of the land and their generally non violent stance. Yet this attribute only added to the contempt and "otherness" in which they were viewed. I believe that millenia of ingrained propaganda, superstition and learned hatred will never be eradicated and that the Jews will always be persecuted.

@ginasevern Jews did not murder Christ - the Romans did.

I think we do see more of this though. Islamophobia is rife. Hatred of “boat people” wherever they are from is seen as acceptable. Anyone with a name with roots elsewhere is tagged as “not British”.

Hate is being fomented across the board, and there is an inability created amongst all of this to rationally discuss big issues, like Israeli territorial aims, or immigration, without being radically polarised by the fervour of the “opposition”.

The Romans crucified him but the Jews called for his execution and bore the blame.

it needs to be stopped but it won’t, people blame the uptick on Israel but the hatred, long outruns any recent stuff, and there is always an excuse, if it’s not Israel, it’s oh but they control this, or oh they’re this, oh they’re that, it’s constant conspiracy crap, othering and excuses as to why we deserve the hatred we get from them.

And its seen as acceptable now to be open about the hatred, you see it online, on social media, very “normal” people happy to openly and publicly engage in their Jew hate, but the hatred has always been there.

As to how do they feels safe, I personally don’t, we got the opportunity to leave the UK (my home since birth) due to a job opportunity with dh and we’ve taken it and are moving early next year, the hate has ground me down, I am exhausted.

What on earth is this nonsense. I thought we’d all moved past this trope. Might prefer the other sort of antisemitism instead of the blood libel Jesus theme of last century.

Or at least it was written so in the Gospel of Matthew where the Jews cried “His blood be on us and on our children”. This is an extremely convenient way for a gospel-writer to keep the new Christians on the good side of the Romans by exonerating the Romans from the death of their messiah.

There’s a lot of that obvious sort of revisionism in the gospels.