The reactions to the Bondi Beach terrorist attack has shown how racist many posters are here.

[TheTamerShrew]

I’m posting because I’m struggling with how racism against Jews is being talked about here following the recent terrorist attack in Australia. What I’ve seen, again and again, is minimisation: it wasn’t really about Jews, it was more complicated than that, let’s not jump to conclusions, other groups have it worse. All the familiar caveats come out remarkably quickly when the victims are Jewish.

I want to say clearly: racism against Jews is racism. Full stop. It doesn’t become less serious because it’s uncomfortable, politically inconvenient, or doesn’t fit neatly into how some people understand racism. And it doesn’t need to compete with other forms of racism to be real or worthy of being named.

What I find particularly painful is how often antisemitism is explained away rather than confronted. We would rightly challenge this pattern if it happened after an attack on almost any other minority group. Yet when Jews are targeted, there seems to be an urge to dilute, reframe, or downplay what’s happened.
I’d really ask people to pause and self-reflect on why that might be.

Why does naming antisemitism feel harder?
Why is there a rush to qualify it, contextualise it out of existence, or deny it altogether?
Why is Jewish fear so often treated as oversensitivity rather than a rational response to a long and very real history?

Acknowledging racism is not an accusation against everyone else. It’s the first, necessary step in confronting it. If we can’t even name antisemitism when it’s staring us in the face, we have no chance of challenging it, let alone preventing it.

We don’t make the world safer by minimising hatred. We make it safer by recognising it honestly, even when that recognition makes us uncomfortable.

I hope this can be read in the spirit it’s intended: not to shut down discussion, but to ask people to explore and self reflect.

See the attached photo: in order to become Anti-racist, one needs to first acknowledge racism

As David Baddiel says "Jews don't count."

There's an excellent podcast by Australian journalist Josh Szeps, called Uncomfortable Conversations, and today he's published a very moving & nuanced reflection on the massacre on Sunday.

https://uncomfortableconversations.substack.com/

His father was the wonderful actor Henri Szeps, who was born in a refugee camp. His father & grandmother were Holocaust survivors. It's very moving but worth a listen for a really informed thoughtful & nuanced view of Jew hatred.

No, it was not GIVEN to anyone. You need to read a bit of history.
It wasn't Palestinian land under British control. It was an entire area that was the British mandate of Palestine. In what way was British behaviour "abysmal"? When they shut the gates of Palestine to desperate Jewish refugees from Europe in the 1940s at the behest of the Arabs?
Anyway, understandably, after WW2, the Brits wanted out as there was so much fighting between the Palestinian zionists and the Palestinian Arabs and it really was a thorn in their side. The Brits asked the UN to come up with a solution and a commission was established. This commission came up with the partition plan as the fairest solution .
On 30 November, 1948, the partition plan was put for a vote at the UN and was passed. The Palestinian Zionist leadership accepted it, the Arab leadership rejected it (no coutner proposal, out and out rejection to any Jewish political presence). The Palestinian Arabs began a civil war against the Palestinian zionists on that very day.
A civil war was fought with the Brits basically just counting down the days to when they would unilaterally leave.
On May 14 1948 at midnight, the British mandate in Palestine ended. On May 15, 1948 the Palestinian Zionists declared the State of Israel. The Palestinian Arabs did not declare a state of palestine. As soon as the Brits left, 5 neighbouring Arab states invaded the new state of Israel to destroy it. The Jordanians kept the West Bank (and expelled or massacred ALL the Jews including from the Old City of jerusalem) and the Egyptians the Gaza strip. Indeed, the land of mandatory Palestine that was later held by the Arabs was annexed to Jorden or controlled by Egypt and no state of Palestine was established.
This is all verifiable historical fact. HTH.
So please explain how it was "given" to the Jewish people?

And, again, NO ONE cares if you believe Israel exists. Or even that it has right to exist. No country has a right to exist (people have rights, not countries), they exist because they do.

Yes, but my point is that this is driven by age old anti semitism. As evidenced by the fact that this justification doesn't seem to happen with Buddhist temples or Russian orthodox churches.
There is a generalized hatred of the west as well, that's true, hence 9/11 and 7/7 but when it comes to targeting one specific group - well, that's generally gonna be the Jews as the hated minority. Twas always thus I guess.

So Malaysians and Indonesians, those brave Muslim supporters of Palestine and the ummah, are quite happy to deny entry to desparate Rohingya refugees and send them out to die at sea. Because they're different (they hate the Rohingya).
But Palestine,oh Palestine - well, that's a noble cause.

Unfortunately history illustrates that when countries turn on their Jewish citizens it no longer matters that they are British, Australian, French or American.
The Jews in Germany 100 years ago considered themselves to be German citizens first and foremost. My mother's family amongst them, many of whom perished in the Holocaust.

I know and no-one's saying otherwise. But in this instance, the war in Gaza is a part of the puzzle. Hence why it's being mentioned.

You're very keen on context. The wider context is the obsession with one conflict in the ME. Coincidentally the one that can be used as a stick to beat Jews with. We've heard a lot of people claiming to be 'pro-Palestinian', yet they only seem to be concerned about the treatment of Palestinians by Israel. There were no large marches organised to condemn the killings of Palestinians in Syria for example.

Similarly we don't see other governments' policies being used as justification for why that government's entire country should cease to exist. That's your context

Ugh, I mean Instagram is just a hotbed of vile propaganda.

That sort of thing was very much the trend on MN immediately after 7/10. Lots of posters saying it was a false flag exercise by Israel itself, and that the attacks had given them "the excuse they needed" etc... 😩

It’s horrendous isn’t it.

Right, it's the excuse. But before Gaza, Jews were a target. Synagogues and Jewish insitutions have been a favourite target of Muslim extremists for a long time.

heck, they were waving Hezbollah flags at some marches when Hezbollah massacred many Palestinians in Syria. Even Jeremy Corbyn called Hezbollah his friends. As long as they hate Israel.

So have we got to the point you accept that mentioning it is not the same as justifying the attacks? Or are we still there?

Surely that’s obvious? 🤷🏻‍♀️

I don't find it difficult to not be antisemitic. Most decent people don't. Decent people do not try to suggest that anyone living in Australia bears any responsibility for the conduct of a government, in a war, thousands of miles away. Some people, OTOH, find the whole "Israel/palestine" debate a very handy way to frame, and therefore disguise, their own Antisemitism.

Jews in Australia were not attacked because of the war in Gaza. They were attacked because of the antisemitism ingrained in radical Islam. This is a theological issue, not a political one. Those same radical islamists were behind Oct 7th, the massacre at the Ariane Grande concert, the Christmas Market murders, Westminster bridge, 9/11, 7/7 - because WE are all also targets of their hatred, anyone who does not belong to their particular interpretation of Islam is to be killed because by doing so - whether or not they survive themselves - they are winning a place in paradise. They hate and despise us, they just hate Jews more.

If you don't understand the deeply religious beliefs motivating these people then you will look for "reasons" like a political argument over land. It's much deeper than that - and it's very very dark.

Sorry not to pile on but add 'attacking Jews in synagogues' as well.

Totally agree with you!

Sorry but I must admit I'm struggling to grasp what you're saying. It sounds as though (???) you're saying that for a few dangerous nut jobs, the Israel–Gaza war gives them the excuse they need to commit violent acts. Well, yes; but you also have to understand that they would do this sort of thing with or without the excuse of a war. Their hatred of Jews is eternal.

I'm also worried that the constant "but Israel!" comments on threads like this just feed into their propaganda machine, which has been running on overdrive ever since the first "pro-Palestinian" marches in London were organised on 7 October 2023 to present Hamas as freedom fighters against oppression. That was a clever DARVO move, because the Western liberal mind can embrace those concepts much more readily than actually getting our heads round the rabid religious fervour and genocidal intentions that actually motivate them to want Israel and Jews destroyed.

OP, you're not wrong and there's been a fair bit of anti-Semitism and minimising on mumsnet (to those posters I really hope you feel shame, but I suspect you're doubling down).
What I will say is fuck the virtue signallers, the bekinders, the Hamas groupies and the 6th form politicians- I honestly think the sane majority is finding it's voice- and balls.
Yes, the media class will minimise- they're in a cult- but we will now call it out.
Look at the results of your poll- I find that heartening.
Thank you for starting this thread- it helps to see that many feel the same at this shitty time.

Far too many people seem not to know (or worse, care) that antisemitic attacks came before 7 October. They increased exponentially from then onwards.

Yanbu, there is a fanatic group, and it is mostly the same usernames everytime, despite frequent deletions, of mumsnet posters that appear on every single Jewish antisemitism related thread. Minimising, derailing (so much derailing), denying antisemitism and determined to do a “gotcha” to try and prove the Jewish person or topic wrong and often feels like they’re trying to get the thread deleted. They are vile antisemites but also just a reflection of society, as there are many vile antisemitic people walking amongst us.

I know but I would have hoped that society would have moved on ! Apparently it hasn’t changed 🤷‍♀️

Well do you think it his actions have made the Jewish community any safer?

Islamic terrorists are the ones killing Jewish people and making them unsafe - they have agency, no-one can "make" them attack and kill innocent people against their will.

Are you aware that Jewish schools and places of worship in the U.K. had security guards and measures before oct 7 and Gaza?
are you aware that they were subjected to racist attacks frequently before oct 7 and Gaza?
because it seems to me that obviously you weren’t or didn’t care enough to notice before these things happened.

Israel bingo!

I am Jewish and I have no control over what the Israeli government does and nor did the poor souls at Bondi.

Unfortunately all the pro-Pally marches do is add fuel to the fire legitimising Jew-hatred because idiots think that Jewish people have influence in what happens in a country thousands of miles away.

Yes. But have the actions of Netanyahu in response to these Islamic Terrorists made the Jewish community safer?