Train chaos again!

[jamimmi]

Ok so dd and I ment to be going on long planed and expensive trip to London this week. Unfortuatly most of it paid and non refundable. Just seen both Northan and avanti are saying travel north of preston tomorrow and Monday will be cancelled, changed etc. Last time I travled to london same thing happend. Why exactly do we not have a trainline in Northan England that can cope with the entirely predictable weather! We keep being told to use public transport but its totally unreliable

You keep telling yourself that.

Exactly. The forecasts are simply too inaccurate be of any genuine benefit, and are in fact detrimental to business and the economy.

Yep. Of course if it's actually dangerous, then cancel, but it's only a yellow warning here and we get them most weeks in winter.

There was absolutely no need to cancel two days worth of public transport over this. There's not even been any flooding, it's just a normal winter day 🙄

Where I am the line was closed for several hours today after strong winds damaged crossing barriers. If they take chances and it goes wrong, they risk weeks of cancellations while rolling stock is out of traffic for repairs.

I'll stick to erring on the side of caution, when it's my own life on the line.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonehaven_derailment

And from Southport. Total shit show.

I don’t know why you keep posting pictures of train derailments. Yes they happen, very rarely. They happen with or without weather warnings. The chances of you ever being in one are tiny. The chances of being in one and being injured or killed even tinier. If you want to err on the side of caution recommend you never get a train or get in a car again.
BTW you know what happens when they stop the trains and other forms of mass transit? People get their cars and drive anyway. That results in more traffic and more accidents.
After 911 air traffic plummeted as people err’d on the side of caution and people drove everywhere instead. The resultant increase in traffic related deaths surpassed the numbers killed on 911 itself.
Your ability to assess risk is fundamentally flawed.

I work on the railways. I had to go and recover a train that had hit a tree a few days ago. That unit will be out of traffic for some time until the damage can be repaired, resulting in cancellations and short-forms as the fleet was already struggling.

By reacting to forecasts we reduce the risk of this happening, and for the sake of a day of disruption we save weeks of cancellations.

By reacting to forecasts we reduce the risk of this happening, and for the sake of a day of disruption we save weeks of cancellations.

What you are doing is reducing an already tiny risk by a fractional amount. The chances of a significant incident happening during each weather warning are small. But if you shut down the railways each time the chances of disruption and economic impact are 100% each time.
In short the benefits don’t outweigh the costs.

But there’s reacting and there’s overreacting.

Yellow warnings are normal in Cumbria - we get them several times a week in winter. The weather that was forecast for this weekend was nothing out of the ordinary and yet for some reason, two days worth of public transport was cancelled before the rain even started.

They could at least have waited until this morning to decide, not unilaterally cancelled two days of transport (in an already isolated and badly served area) without an actual reason.

It's frustrating, but totally understandable due to the weather warnings and as a result you should be able to get your money back. At least the infrastructure exists, Dr Beeching screwed Wales over big time - you literally cannot travel from north to south without going on a massive detour via bloody Shrewsbury.

@Arlanymorsadly you are mistaken, we can’t travel “north to south” we can only travel to and from London. In some places that is north to south what we can’t do is travel anywhere else 😭

”Local” travel or easy to west nada.

Define "significant incident". Trees on the line are incredibly likely in foul weather. One tree strike will put a unit out of action for weeks. Saturated ground can make landslips more likely. Anything which strands a train at a remote location will end up consuming huge amounts of resources - and given that they were short of a Mobile Operations Manager at Barrow they've not got someone to act as the Rail Incident Officer in an emergency. The reason that the UK railway has such a good safety record currently is the safety culture. The rule book is written in blood.

Network Rail employ meteorolgists. I'll stick to letting the experts make the decisions. Not internet randoms.

The infrastructure barely exists here in Cumbria either. The entire west coast was cut off from public transport this weekend for absolutely no reason whatsoever - ridiculous.

But if it usually runs and there are timetabled services then you have the infrastructure. The infrastructure is the foundations of the service - we had 190 stations closed - hence no infrastructure. Not saying it's not bloody annoying when services are delayed or cut off of course, because it is!

The Cumbrian Coast Line flooded in multiple places today.

The infrastructure only exists up and down the coast though (from where I am, anyway) - you can’t get inland on public transport without going several hours out of your way.

Yes, but there was no need to shut the entire line from Carlisle to Barrow because of it. Services could have just terminated earlier.

Oh I see, sorry I misunderstood. Opposite problem to us then... although having said that, you can't really get inland either! One thing that really should be massively invested in across the whole of the UK frankly isn't it?

No worries, I probably didn’t explain it well.

Much more investment is needed - I used to work a 45 minute drive from my town and once googled the trains out of interest - it would take me 5 hours and even then I’d need to walk the last 3 miles 😂

They also refused to provide any road replacement, which is what most people are unhappy about.

Yes, if the trains can’t operate then cancel them but the roads are fine and alternatives could have been put on for people. If the taxis can manage it, so can a coach or a bus.

The rail and rail infrastructure in around Cumbria is so poor. That’s before the huge rise in year around tourism since Covid.

I love the coastal train journey especially over the Arnside viaduct but have to ensure there is a driver on hand in case all the return trains are cancelled and get stranded!

It's honestly insane - totally feel your pain!

Yep, the coast is especially bad - we are so isolated and if you don’t drive and the trains aren’t running you’re fucked. It doesn’t help that lots of people rely on the trains to get to work either.

I mean, I appreciate the weather can’t be helped but this happens multiple times a year, every year - you’d think they could be a little more prepared 😬

Corkickle to Whitehaven has been closed for some time. Whitehaven to Carlisle had buses today so I presume that there was an engineering possession announced weeks ago. Is there a suitable crossover available short of the flooded line at which to turn back Barrow to Corkickle trains? Because if they were struggling to cover the Barrow MOM shift then you certainly wouldn't have staff for Pilot Working to the point of obstruction. And if anything goes wrong with no MOM available you've got a stranded train with no one to coordinate the response on the ground.

Honister recorded 200mm of rain (that's 8 inches in old money) in 24 hours. On ground that is already saturated.