To wonder if the Doctors strike will still go ahead next week?

[Netcurtainnelly]

Does anyone know when it will be decided if the strike will be called off because of the flu next week?

What do you think about it?

There you go. Quick Google search for you.

Zero sympathy with them now, they seem to think they are the only people who lost out massively on pay over the years of austerity, significant rises over last couple of years, they remind me of animal farm, everyone’s equal but some are more equal than others

Oh fgs

Starting on £38k isn't too bad imo. My son is only on £30k and gets by

What does your son do? Did he do a 5 year degree? Does he have enormous stress and responsibility as part of his job?

Being a doctor is hard, one of the hardest jobs academically and professionally. They should be paid more than enough to 'get by'.

Wjy do medics think they have a god given right to a relatively well paid job and training for life. Why not nurses, lawyers, physios etc?

Well, we need doctors, and it's hard to be a doctor, and to practice safely they need training. Nurses and physios should also be paid well and have job security. Lawyers are fine.

Competition per se isn't bad but look at it logically. For emergency medicine there are 5081 applications for 357 posts. That is a pretty impossible ratio and that is, by a quick reckoning, about average. (Source: NHS). It is all very well using other professions as a comparison such as law. This, as I said in my previous post, is not a fair comparison. There are lots of law firms for graduates to apply to, there is only one NHS. I am not saying that becoming a lawyer is easy but for this role at least a candidate can shop around and apply to multiple employers. Where are all the unsuccessful A&E applicants meant to look for a job?

Whether you like to admit it or not, hospitals are vastly understaffed. It is ridiculous that we have lots of F2 doctors keen to train but around half of last year's cohort are currently not working as doctors in the UK. Where is the sense in that?

The BMA have been asking Wes streeting to meet with them since October. He ignored them for weeks and weeks and didn't even acknowledge or respond to their request UNTIL they said the strikes were going ahead.

It was they only card they had to play to get him round the table.

They have an offer to take to members and it's an important offer. Important enough for the BMA to think their members should be consulted.

Nobody WANTS to strike. Believe me. I work for a union (not BMA), it's a desperate measure to take.

It's not JUST about money. It's about job opportunities for the junior doctors who are from. and train in this country who also wants to train in specialist areas.

£30k would be poor. £38k as a starting salary is quite nice. Isn't FY2 £44k as a bare minimum and doesn't take into account extra shifts and weekends?

We all know the reason wages are low-ish is that the NHS is a monopsony on doctor labour. A bit of free market competition would spruce things up a bit.

I know what it’s about, but on the one hand they say there are no jobs for them on the other they say they are leaving the UK to work abroad because of the pay and conditions. I worked in the NHS long enough to know that Drs aren’t the be all and end all no matter what they want everyone to think

Not enough doctors in UK. What do they expect?

Like in the USA where they are paid significantly more?

Doctors are also angry that this government as well as the previous governments are busy spending millions replacing doctors with less Qualified practitioners.Look up the Leng report on Physician associates . They are all still in post and on doctor/ GP rotas.Starting salary for a newly qualified physician associate in London is 28.00 per hour compared to a newly qualified Doctor 19.00 per hour .Guess who is legally responsible if anything goes wrong ? Labour's workforce plan is to spend millions on doctor replacements just look at the Nhs adverts and salaries for Advanced /trainees clinical practitioners all of whom are replacing doctors .We the public are being played and more importantly patient safety is not a priority for this government

People are insane for thinking doctors should be grateful for salaries of 30-40k.

I have a cushy office job and I wouldn’t get out of bed for that salary. I was paid more straight out of graduate school.

purple - seriously sloppy google search.

Yes a training rotation is the easier way to get to the end of your specialist training as it is eserved up for oyur on a plate. However, your superior training job will be aprt of a rotation which probably includes those inferior jobs you called trust jobs. So there will ebdoctors on a training programme mixed with trust grade docotrs rotating through working for different consultants.

8 doctors on a rota 4 trainee and 4 trust rotate through 8 jobs over a two year period - so 4 different roles. Do you think the Trust grade gets to do a different job - less clinics, less patient time, less teaching than the trainee - if that is what you think then you really do know nothing about what goes on. The Trust grade going through the same jobs as the trainee will pick up the assessments and training just like a trainee.on a rotation.
There are lots of doctors in this country who get to CCT/CESR by making their own rotations and competing for these jobs - their training is no less than the trainee who did the same job.

Your condescension for these roles and what the trainees get from them is totally unjustified. Knowning you have employment for 5/6 years and the curriculum requirements will be covered by your rotation is a much easier place to eb than the trust grade aiming for the smae thing but having to do it themsleves but the training is no different.

Staffing levels are not low - what makes you think that -

Exactly how do you pay their salary ?
I've heard this comment before and it majorly pees me right off.

100% agree - GCSE's are my only qualifications and I'm on nearly £40k in an admin job. Mon-friday, 9am-4.30pm. no stress, no work to take home.

£30-40k for a junior doctor doing unpaid overtime, super long shifts etc, and people thinking they're being greedy, is absolutely insane.

They are highly trained professionals with people's lives in their hands.

The race to the bottom in this country at the moment, is absolutely wild.

I did it quickly as fed up with your posts. The information is correct. Trust grade jobs are not training posts.

Not sure what the chip on your shoulder is about Trust Grade/training posts as it does not apply to you.

The majority of doctors go the training route rather than via ad hoc Trust Grade jobs. Why do you think that is?

That is a rhetorical question as I won't be reading or answering any more of your posts as you just like arguing therefore I am not going to enable that any longer.

Agree .

Many people - scientists, charity workers - are underpaid but can't strike because they have no leverage.

Sorry but that’s bollocks. Right now on the ward we are packed to the rafters with RSV/covid/flu. Are they actors being paid by the government to fool us all too….?

I mean medicine there is an actual lucrative career choice

Via taxation?

Yes public sector workers pay tax. But ultimately they are getting paid via tax and then paying some back to the state.

I think a starting pay of £38k is fine. The jump to £44k next year is fine.

As I've learnt on MN there are people who never earn beyond the low £30ks for their whole careers. Some don't even hit £30k despite them working hard in stressful jobs.

I fully support it. The absolute scandal of unemployed Drs needs to be dragged into the spotlight. For all our talk of the nhs needing immigration to function, at what cost? We have our own qualified medical grads who can't get a job in their own country. It's outrageous.

I dont understand the doctors wanting a pay raise as they were given a generous one last year. They claim that their pay has eroded since 2009 but so has the pay of other sectors as well. What makes them more deserving?

I do understand and sympathise with their concerns about jobs because of experiences of my own. Doctors have to pay out thousands of pounds in fees in order to take exams in specialisms to improve their position. Then having done so there are not enough training places for them. This is why we are lossing young doctors to countries like Canada and Australia who offer them a future.

The gaurantee to prioritise UK born doctors over those from elsewhere for these training posts is welcome. Also for the financial help with fees, It remains to be seen whether this is sufficient incentive for them to avert the strike.

I do not feel there will be widespread public sympathy if it goes ahead.

Totally agree. Glad the genie is out of the bottle as so few people were aware of this scandal. Someone needs to investigate this.

Streeting sat on this problem for 18 months. Meanwhile in 2025 67% of applications to specialty training applications came from foreign doctors.

195 countries prioritise their own medical graduates and the UK did until Johnson lifted the Resident Labour Market Test in January 2020. Result is unemployed doctors that cost the UK around 250k to train and the doctors personally have about 100k in student debt that is accruing interest at 8%.

Meanwhile we have A&Es like war zones and huge waiting lists while approximately 22,000 UK trained doctors are unemployed.

I agree the strike should have been about prioritisation for UK trained doctors. This would take them back to the position doctors were in until January 2020 when The Resident Labour Market Test was abolished.

Streeting attempting to weaponise and use prioritisation of UK graduates was a very stupid move as it has highlighted how vindictive he has been to the doctors.

Also no way will right wing politicians allow him to not prioritise UK graduates now they are aware of the problem. How can a country justify employing foreign doctors when its own doctors are unemployed?

Australia and Canada both prioritise their own medical graduates so British doctors can apply for any left over jobs. That was the situation in the UK up until January 2020.

'First do no harm'.

The resident doctors would do well to remember that.