To wonder if the Doctors strike will still go ahead next week?

[Netcurtainnelly]

Does anyone know when it will be decided if the strike will be called off because of the flu next week?

What do you think about it?

Surely MN traffic increases through the evening?

I’m sick of this, it’s the height of selfish cynicism holding to ransom vulnerable scared patients and their families at the absolute worst time of year. And now rejecting an extremely reasonable package? Nah, I’ve had enough.

Streeting is weak. Government needs to legislate NOW to disallow these doctors from striking, as is the case for police.

I worry about being treated by such money grabbing and money concerned clinicians. How is that vocational? How do these yawning money maws square off what they are doing with the Hippocratic oath?

There are at least ten applicants for every undergrad post, so, so many bright young people desperate to be doctors who can’t get a place who would be better than this snarling hand-out awful lot, holding me and my family to ransom. And we pay over £200k to train these people?!!!! Get out - if £££ matters that much, go work for big 4, or magic circle, or other lucrative professions. Don’t go for something where people’s lives have to rely on you. It’s a vocation for a reason.

Absolutely, agree 100%

Most of them wouldn't stand a chance of a job at big 4 or magic circle! You need to be actually really clever for that, and to be prepared to work all the hours God sends.

😂

A few have suggested to me that they’re thinking of applying and I’ve cautioned about the reality of competition - and yes absolutely, demands of the job.

and if you use the retail price index nurses pay is down 45%.
If you use the consumer rice indeex which everyone else does - doctors are down 5%.Disingenuous bull shit by the BMA once again.

Fees in 1998 were not 9250 but then an SPR was not grossing 95K per annum , obviously prices have gone up as have salaries.

As to insulting purples son - no never have you ahve done that all yourself purple. You and patently your son aremiffed he did not get a CT number and consider the job je is doing a trust grade job is below him, not worthy and he is not progressing. Anyone in the health service will tellyou otherwise and it is very isnulting to docotros who get to CCT by moving every 6 months in trust grade jobs.

Ans onyone who says all doctors are equal and copetent obviously needs a statistics lesson and a look at bell curves.

contextal offers are not AAA they are significantly less and all docotrs in the past were lacking in empathy - different generational expectations of doctors and behaviours.

I actually know someone who did FY1, FY2 and decided to leave and join PWC. If we have too many doctors trained then they have ample other careers to go into

@mumsneedwine they are so predictable!

Costs a fortune but the consultants have been round in force and discharged patients home in record times because they have experience and can be more decisive. Just means we’ve spent nearly £1m more than we should over the weekend!

My cousin trained with PWC and the hours were longer than a doctor without over time pay and the culture totally cut throat/bullying. We have resident doctors who refuse to work 10 minutes over without pay. It’s bizarre. I’m not saying people should work masses of overtime but early in your career it’s normal to do some imo.

Could you message mumsneedwine privately if you want to talk between yourselves about other posters because it distracts from the actual conversation on the thread; it's also childish.

No. I don't take orders from randoms with an over inflated opinion of their own importance.

Ironic.

Like wise we do not accept what self invested parents claim as gospel when many of us work in the nhs alongside resident doctors and put up with the poor enitield behaviours by some.

Your failure to acknowledge that resident doctors do not run the nhs and are part of a massive multi disciplinary team which on the whole delivers excellent care to a large number of the population without major cock ups displays your ignorance. Your ignorance on pay and how the health service as a whole is structured for this - agenda for change shows your arrogance and rudeness.

AfC recognises qualifications and experience and if you mark where residents sit versus nurses physios, senior admin staff - then resident doctors do quite well. An experienced Band 6 nurses pay is on a par with and FY1 and FY2 - yet there are chasms in responsibility and experience that devalues the nurses time, effort and skills.

But then to some of the posters on here resident doctors can do no wrong and it is all the fault of everyone else.

The most ludicrous thing in pay terms is that new physician associates, who have a fraction of the training of newly qualified doctors, and who cannot even prescribe, have a higher starting salary. Our local medical school has both medical students and PA students. Because I regularly teach the med students, I was asked to cover a couple of the same topics with the final year PA students. I asked how I should adjust the level of teaching, and was told to keep it the same. Total disaster. The sessions are highly interactive, very much about activating prior learning and giving a scaffolding structure about which to assemble their knowledge. The 3rd and 4th year medical students love it, engage really well, and are frankly impressive. The PA students basically sat there. Not a fraction of the knowledge or engagement. And yet they will be paid more. I can honestly see why that pisses off the residents.

(And yes, we absolutely need the whole MDT, and yes you can use a competency based workforce: I have helped train some frankly amazing ACPs but it takes a long time and a lot of effort from everyone)

You either need 5/6 years of medical school, 2 years foundation and 7+ years of speciality training to be a consultant. Or you don't and can just do a degree in horticulture and an 18month PA course. If the latter is 'equivalent' then fine, stop all doctor training now and give them their money back.
If a nurse is better than a doctor, again stop doctor training and have more nurses. Easy.

Personally I'd like to see a doctor. And will continue to ask for one when ill.

I don't think anyone on here thinks that a PA is in any way better than a consultant?
They just think that junior doctors are paid enough given their relative inexperience and the fact that we are training far too many of them. (Hint, a glut of anything generally makes that thing cheaper.)

Your concern for consultants is touching, is it because you have just found out that not all juniors who complete training will become consultants?
The maths is really simple. Something like 10000 per year emerging from medical school. Something like 2000 per year required at the top of the profession to replace retirees and leavers. The other 8000 per year will have to find something else to do.

Oh dear. Again rudeness. Never understand why some people can't disagree without making it personal. My own DD will be fine thanks. She's in run through training and if no jobs here she'll go to Aus or EU (has a passport due to me being from foreign descent and speaks fluent language). I'm not here as 'just a mum'. But you seem to always want to attack mums as if it's an insult ? Weird on a site called Mumsnet.

But some of you so obviously resent resident doctors. I just hope as you get older you never need one as they'll be gone. You'll get a nice PA/ACP though and you'll be happy with that so all good.

Merry Christmas.

Sorry, who mentioned your dd?

Who attacked mums?

I explained how the numbers work that's all

She's in run through training and if no jobs here she'll go to Aus or EU (has a passport due to me being from foreign descent and speaks fluent language)

Which is fine. But accept that most of those systems are insurance based and not free at the point of use. We can't have a "free" NHS and pay doctors much more.

Also most EU countries don't pay more, and AUS has a very high cost of living.

You either need 5/6 years of medical school, 2 years foundation and 7+ years of speciality training to be a consultant. Or you don't and can just do a degree in horticulture and an 18month PA course. If the latter is 'equivalent' then fine, stop all doctor training now and give them their money back.
If a nurse is better than a doctor, again stop doctor training and have more nurses. Easy.s

Once again mums you miss the point. PAs, physios, nurses are not doctors and no one claims they are but they can be highly skilled in their area and AFC recognises differnet skill sets and qualifications are needed to make the healths ervice work. Yes to be hones tI would rather see a Band 7 nurse specialised in her area than an FY1, but ahve the FY1 along side learning all aspects of the care of the condition not just one view point. That you think an FY1 should be paid and given the respect of a nurse, physio of 20 yrs experience, masters degrees, courses and other post grad qualifications again displays your utter ignorance of the reality of ebing a doctor in the NHS.

That you and purple want to put doctors on a higher plane is heading back to an era that is long gone and good doctors, nurses, managers recognise the skill sets that each bring to the equation of health care. It does however, explain why our junior resident doctors have such an entitled attitude to pay, conditions and feel free to belittle and attack other parts of the cogs in healthcare.

Sorry FY1, FY2, CT1, CT2 doctors do not deserve to be paid more than expereinced nurses simply because they went to med school and have debt.

AS to your daughter in run through training she can always take a trust grade job and continue learning but you and purple think anyone in a trust grade job is a loser and not as good as those who do get a training number. I know very few consultants who went FY1/2. CT1.2, ST3-8, consultant - most have had some time out in low grade trust jobs, research,gone over seas and all will tell you they are better for it.

I’m very interested in what they have to say as I believe they are communicating honestly & in good faith amongst a sea of misinformation & maliciousness .I have learned from them .
These reads as yet another attempt to silence them & any other honest posters on this thread . Interesting!
Still supporting the doctors as I understand the facts behind their strike action .

This . Thank you for posting .