To wonder if the Doctors strike will still go ahead next week?

[Netcurtainnelly]

Does anyone know when it will be decided if the strike will be called off because of the flu next week?

What do you think about it?

No one, not even the BMA, knows whether it will go ahead. The government has made an offer that boils down to "we won't pay you more, but we might start paying for some of your exams, and we pinkie promise to look at the fucked up workforce planning situation". This offer has been put to the residents by the BMA Residents Committee, with an online ballot, which I think closes on Monday. If the balloted members reject the offer, the strike will go ahead. If they accept it, then it won't.

The real worry shouldn't be around acute work, acute work can be covered by cancelling elective work and diverting senior medical staff. But NHS trusts have come under enormous pressure from the government not to cancel elective work, meaning that the acute side will be much more thinly staffed than it could have been, because Wes Streeting wants to be able to boast how little elective work has been cancelled. If he really wanted to maintain safety during a flu surge coinciding with industrial action, he wouldn't be wanking off over how little elective stuff is cancelled. We've struggled to cover because we aren't being let cancel clinics, but have scraped together at least the same level of cover as is available on weekends. And if that isn't good enough for the government, then frankly they need to be employing enough doctors to provide better cover every weekend.

Completely agree. The doctors forums are very anti Streeting as they say promises have already been broken about other things. He lost their trust a while back.

Apparantly it will. They want more money.

Read the thread @Boomer55.

I agree that in lots of ways patients are actually safer in a resident Drs strike because the Consultants take over. It’s the waiting lists that tend to suffer as obviously the Consultants can’t be in two places at once.

Trust grade jobs are not training jobs. I doubt there are 1,000s of them in this economic climate. They are service provision only. Of course doctors will learn while doing Trust Grade jobs but they are not on a path to becoming a consultant.

If you are getting this utter tripe from your child then they have a real problem with arrogance. Many doctors learn and are trained in Trust grade jobs alongside those who are in nominated training posts - most decent consultants do not differentiate between the two streams. Rotas the same, theatres the same, clinics the same , nights the same - just calling one a training job and one Trust grade does not mean it tis not as good and people become consultants from just doing trust grade jobs somehow getting trained, making the targets, passing the exams and entering the specialist register - it is actually harder to get on the specialist register that way than some one who has it handed to them on a plate as part of a training programme.

The ridiculous competition ratios mean my DCs surgical training has been interrupted so previous 2 years of surgical training is wasted omg not wasted, lesrning more skills which they need and maybe some humility of his parents attitude to Trust grade doctors is anything to go by.

Youa re seriously offensive to people in trust grade jobs who help train the "trainees" you seem to think are superior and not worthy of service delivery. All jobs whether training or trust deliver service and train.

Doctors come out with 100k of debt after 5 years at medical school. Who would do that with only a 50% chance of getting a job at the end of the process? These are highly intelligent people.

Again utter rubbish as shown by the latest recruitment figures and the BMA survery showed that 30% of UK resident docs did not apply for a training post - so slef iniflicted failure to progress in training.

Where do you get your rubbish from.

Would it make much difference if they did strike? A relative of mine was in A&E a few weeks ago and there was only one Doctor on duty.

Not to acute care but if you have waited for your hip replacement for a year had it cancelled a number of times because of previous strikes then you might feel less inclined to support the resident doctors.

I am referring the young adults that are thinking of becoming doctors so pre-medical school which means they are not doctors. You are referring to people that are already doctors. Completely different.

@mumsneedwine is a teacher involved with medical school applicants. It is already a concern.

Not offensive to Trust grade jobs. They are not training jobs. They do not get the same opportunities as those with a training number and it is very hard to become a consultant if not on a training pathway.

Why do you think I am getting my information from my DC?

DEeply offensive to Trust grade doctors - what opportunities do they not get. They get access to the teaching, can go on the smae courses, see the same aptients, get taught by the same consultants - agree it is harder to get to CCT this way but there are many consultants in this country who have got on the speciaist register the hard way. They are no less worthy or less well trained which is what you are implying.

You seem to think your DC is wasting their time ina Trust grade job and nothing could be further from the truth.

And the stats show there is a greater than 50% chance of getting a training job so you are wiritng rubbish once again

They really dont get the same opportunities as those with a trainingnumbe. Maybe if you are on the outside looking in it may appear that way.

52% of F2s had no job to go to in August.

That "rubbish" was from the BMA (British Medical Association). Please see link below.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opinion/major-survey-shows-scale-of-doctor-unemployment-crisis&ved=2ahUKEwis2LD14riRAxWzVEEAHeqMEkkQFnoECDkQAQ&sqi=2&usg=AOvVaw3y1wtGbT4YYjF9trUtjF25

If it happens it happens nothing we can do.

IMO the BMA should be concentrating on the lack of training posts not salaries. There is a real crisis in recruitment as F2s are facing huge levels of competition for training places. This is really hard for them as they cannot try to get a job with another employer as it is only the NHS they can work for. It is frankly ridiculous that a vast sum of money is spent on training med grads only for them to not be able to get a job. No doubt someone will shout me down for this but just look at the stats.

They pay tax too. Doctors aren't indentured servants. Their pay and conditions have changed drastically over the past decade, if the government won't listen when they as nicely what other option is there?

Strikes cause disruption to elective surgeries and clinic appointments, acute and emergency care wouldn't be impacted beyond the staff trying to cover.

Being saddled with massive uni debt, having a long journey of training ahead and then having no ongoing work options is pretty unacceptable and I understand why the BMA are advocating strike action.

The pay issue I struggle with after a big payrise. They haven't achieved pay restoration but I think they need to read the room a little, further payrises for doctors would be political suicide for an already struggling labour party. This would also pave the way for nurses and AHPs threatening strike action, which is only not happening now because of the RCN's incompetence, and the public would likely feel differently about nurse pay.

This is me being really selfish, I know, but if they could hold off until my baby is born in March, that'd be good. It's taken years of repeated loss and heartbreak to get this far and if they go on strike, I'll never again see them in a good light in all my years left on this planet.

This is correct. Lack of training posts, lack of med school posts because the BMA wanted it capped when they thought it would dilute the salaries of their members, so we import foreign-trained doctors, which also explains why our own trained doctors can't get jobs in the NHS. The whole thing is deeply, deeply stupid.

NHS workforce planning is a total farce. I actually think the BMA should fold on the salary issue for now, as government can't afford to pay more, if there's a decent offer on workforce planning. But I doubt the offer to be particularly decent.

Why is competition bad?

Wjy do medics think they have a god given right to a relatively well paid job and training for life. Why not nurses, lawyers, physios etc?

And still no evidence that Trst grade jobs are inferior to"alleged" training jobs. The fact that trust grades and training post doctors work the same rota and rotate through exactly the same job with the same opportunities for learring and teaching means the same access to training each time - or do you think the consultants asks are you in a training post or a trust grade then delivers a lesser form of training ?

Starting on £38k isn't too bad imo. My son is only on £30k and gets by.

God Forbid a highly trained doctor on £15 an hour asking for a pay rise when minimum wage is couple of quid less.
slow clap
We have become a society that undervalues teachers and doctors. Well done. Keep racing to the bottom Britain.

edited to add that they actually get less than minimum wage when you factor in all the extra hours they end up doing outside their contracted hours to ensure to complete the endless to do list just like teachers. They do it because of their goodwill. You won’t see this in many other professions.
they are literally saving people’s lives and you think £30k is okay when stacking shelves at Aldi pays almost as much?!

The gov wants you to blame them for their own NHS failings and you have eaten then bait - well done!

No evidence is needed. Why do you ask for evidence? Why not search yourself?

Trust grade jobs are not training posts. You were the one that said they are inferior. I said they are non-training posts and do not have access to the same training opportunities as trainees do.