To wonder if the Doctors strike will still go ahead next week?

[Netcurtainnelly]

Does anyone know when it will be decided if the strike will be called off because of the flu next week?

What do you think about it?

With respect, I don't see that helping students with UCAS admissions will give any real insight into medicine. It's about ticking boxes and jumping through hoops. It can't begin to give the same depth of knowledge as a consultant or even a specialty trainee.

@Milmington My roles in medical admissions are not just as a teacher. But again the assumptions people make are usually just to be rude.

Every medical school disagrees with the few alleged consultants on here. Every single one counts other skills than grades and UCAT. Are they all wrong ? Would seem strange.

Hope Wes learns to listen and not name call in the new year. Debate and negotiate without insults. Really not that hard

But I don't think any of the posters on here with medical careers are disputing that knowing how to engage with patients in an empathetic and appropriate way is not an essential attribute. Simply that high academic ability and a strong aptitude for science are critical if a student can have reasonable expectations that their career will progress up through the ranks.

Again, with respect, my point was more that since you're not a doctor you can't by definition look at the current situation with the same level of insight as a senior medic.

@Milmington but today's doctors are no less academic ? Where is this lie coming from ? One consultant who seems to despise resident doctors ? All successful applicants will have good A levels and all but a handful will have science a levels, as they always did. Standard applicant average is AstarAA. Are we calling these useless grades now ?

Many students get A stars who would make horrible doctors ! This was what happened in the past, so now you need grades and softer skills. How is that wrong ?

@Milmington and I work with many v senior medics, renowned doctors in their fields, who think the current process is a huge improvement. They support students getting into medicine and seem to like their residents !

Absolutely this . They aren’t arguing in good faith .

Why do you think that?

Exactly.

For traditional preclinical courses, soft skills are completely redundant, and they are equally redundant in the large proportion of consultants in specialities without patient contact. Traditionally, one purpose of clinical undergraduate training was to inculcate them. Entrants to medicine sort themselves into fields according to their strengths and a minority of students who have difficulty interacting with patients head off to something different but just as important.

People in my medical school formalised admission criteria in the early 2000s in such a way that it looked as though we were only interested in selecting for a very specific type of doctor - a good "family doctor". Applicants with outstanding records of scientific academic attainment could not be shortlisted if they didn't also score in a battery of non-academic areas. Having come from a time when medical school applicants were admitted almost entirely on academic criteria without interview, I found this confusing until I realised that the purpose of the exercise was not to recruit applicants for their "soft skills", it was just a way of deprioritising academic attainment because of its socioeconomic associations.
The UCAT had the same DEI purpose, but paradoxically it turns out that this disadvantages high attaining applicants from the lowest socioeconomic group.

Well I wonder this too. But also what specifically is the 'agenda' referred to?

That is comedy gold. Why would anyone disclose their profession to this nest of vipers?

They really aren't. The "hidden" agenda becomes more obvious with each post.

I think there is 5 of them on here at the moment. Possibly reinforcements were requested.

But no-one I don't think has asked you to disclose your profession. It just seems very clear that you aren't a medical professional yourself.

But what is the 'hidden' agenda - it's certainly hidden to me. I'm not sure why no-one will say what it is, for those who don't get it.

Absolutely your perogative to think that but pretty base to role it up as an insult.

It's not an insult at all to say that some one is evidently not a particular professional. I'm basing the fact that you're not a medical professional purely on your posts. I'm not sure why that's perceived as an insult.

That is insulting by implication. Not all doctors are intellectual snobs that write verbose posts that they spend hours researching in order to attempt to discredit UK medical graduates.

But you already know this.

It's just not an insult. You may well have a professional career but it's just not a medical career.

I think they should strike. It'll save the NHS money as they don't get paid whilst they strike.

This post demonstrates a total lack of understanding about why the NHS is in such an appalling mess .
It is not the fault of the medical staff who have long been trying to wake the public up to what’s going on .
It has been privatised & sold off behind the scenes . This was largely enabled by the Health & Social Care Act of 2012 . The legal principle on which the NHS was based - the government’s duty of care to the people was also removed by this act .
Our money goes to pay shareholders to deliver the care that our taxes used to pay for directly.
Many young doctors , quite sensibly in my opinion , are deserting the system in droves for countries that appreciate & pay them properly .
The very last part of this process will be that we have to pay at the point of requiring care .
For example an ambulance trip to hospital will be around £1000 , as in the States .

It’s heartbreaking.

But yet majority of all applicants still have v high A level grades. Still have to pass many difficult exams both at Uni and for further career progression that require that high level of science. I find it sad that you believe your resident doctors are not as clever as you or are less talented. The same science is taught through the course, just not as front loaded as it used to be.

All medical schools now use UCAT so they must think it has merit (they don't have to). All interview in a variety of ways as they want to meet students before allowing them into the profession.

And again, who is brighter, the student from
a comfy home with loads of support and in a class of 5 who gets an A star, or the one sharing a room with siblings who has to work a part time job and in a class of 26 who gets an A ? Grades do not tell the whole story.

You're right, they don't. But the consultants covering for them get paid a fortune. There are not less doctors working in strike days !

It has cost the NHS billions of £££ not settling the strikes, in fact they could have given doctors the pay restoration they've asked for over the next 7 years and saved money.

I think Marchesman said they do some work for a UK medical school but no idea where they qualified so maybe comparing their medical school experience so could be comparing apples with pears?

@PurpleFairyLights v weird if they are involved in admissions that they dislike the process quite so much. And v sad they disparage their colleagues so often. Although the 5 Yorkshire Men does always spring to mind 😊.

I personally hate UCAT but med schools like it and assume they all think it's worth doing.