DD (21) plans to get married and move abroad

[Thatonesong]

My DD is 21, she's a lovely, sociable, smart girl. She studied sports science and is now doing her MSc in Sports and Exercise Medicine. She entered into a new relationship in January, the man is 28 which to me feels like a notable age gap at 20/21, but I appreciate others may feel differently. He is from the Middle East and has made it clear he plans to move home. He proposed to DD at the start of the month, which felt quite fast since they'd been together for maybe 10/11 months at the time, but we congratulated her, she seems happy and airing our opinion is only likely to cause upset.
Tonight DD came over for dinner, without her partner. She told us she is planning to get married in the summer and then move to his home country with him in the autumn after she graduates. I asked if she has a plan for once she is there career wise and she said maybe some sports coaching but he can afford to support them both. This felt like a red flag to me as I don't want her to be fully reliant on anyone else to just survive. She was also honest and said having children is high on her priority list and she "doesn't want to wait until she's older and too tired to be an active mum". I felt a bit gobsmacked tbh, but just said she should spend some time thinking about if this all what she really wants or if she is doing it because it is what he wants/feels pressured.
Since she left I haven't been able to stop crying, my partner thinks we need to have a harsher word with her, note the risks more plainly, such as difficult getting a divorce, likely not possible to have children there, break up and move back here with them (due to The Hague Convention) etc.
I know she is an adult and entitled to make her own choices, but 21 still feels very young!
AIBU to be so concerned? What do I do?

IMO the issue is not that she wants to get married young or that her partner is a few years older or that he's Muslim. None of those ring alarm bells to me; but the fact that they intend to immediately move back to his home country of Qatar does. While he may be very liberal and open-minded, it is still a very conservative country and her freedoms will be curtailed, even if not by him. In addition, there's the added complication that if they have children and (heaven forbid) the marriage breaks down, it is 99% likely that she would not be allowed to return to the UK with the children unless he explicitly allows it, so she would face the choice of returning alone without her children or staying in a foreign country as a divorced woman. It's also very likely that her husband would granted full custody even if she stays. Of course, this could all be worrying for nothing; maybe they'll have a long, very happy marriage, but it's something to consider. No one gets married thinking it won't last but it is better to know what will happen if it does. To me, I would be advising DD to consider moving in with her partner in the UK for a few years, to make sure the relationship is really solid and they survive the "honeymoon" phase of a new relationship, before making any longer-term plans involving marriage or moving abroad.

He sounds like he’s trying to isolate her by taking her away, encouraging her not to work, getting married quickly and having children.

I would be worried too.

I used to live in the middle east, hated it.

She will have to fall in with dress code etc.

She really needs to go live there before getting married and start a family. It may be a real culture shock and she changes her mind, or she will fall in love with the place, either way all good.
If she gets married first, she may have issues.

Very red flaggish. I'd be concerned too. The very fact that he isnt taking her side of things into account is worrying. The fact she's got an MA but he doesnt seem to mind her not having a career is dodgy. I think your poor daughter is extremely naive.

I think you should syggest she has a career for a few years first. If the partner gets stroppy about this then that is a big red flag and you need to alert your daughter to this. The whole thing would be very worrying gor me. Get her to read this thread.

True to some extent and The Hague Convention has become a gift for controlling men in Europe.

Where it differs is the legislation in Qatar starts from a base point where women have very limited rights, particularly non-Muslim women.

Or he’s offering her the life they both want 🤷🏻‍♀️

She’s 21. She may be young, but it’s her decision. It may or may not be a bad one - time will tell - but it is nonetheless hers to make. You already know that trying to intervene will cause bad feeling, and instead of listening to your concerns she’s likely to double down and push you away. It also means that if she ever needs support then you won’t be the ones she’ll turn you, because she won’t want you to be proven right.

So tread carefully. That doesn’t mean don’t share your concerns, but be careful in how to approach the topic. Going in hard and fast with doom mongering about a country that you have little to no experience isn’t going to work here. Nor will treating her like a child that needs her parents to protect her. Saying that you respect her adult choices, support her, and that you’ll always be there to help when you can if she finds herself in need, is likely to get a far more positive reception than the alternative is.

I think one difference is though that Muslims see the Koran as the actual words of God. God perfected his vision with Islam and the Koran is the final word and so not open to development or interpretation.
This is my impression, maybe somebody better informed will say I'm wrong though.

I would absolutely hate this!

I have drilled it into my DD that she has her whole life to be married and have kids but she is only young once - I just hope she listens.

You need to be careful.
She is in love with this man and he provides her with a lifestyle she’s always dreamed of.
If you are too negative then you field pushing her away.

I would tell her that you’re happy for her and that you’ll miss her but why should she spend her whole life in the UK.

Tell her that it’s ok to not want to be an old mum but that if you had your time again that you wouldn’t have kids until after 25, which is still really young.
Encourage her to spend the first couple of years focussing on her career and them travelling as much as possible as these are things she can’t do as much afterwards.

Although I would hate my child getting married that young, it is not a permanent thing and she can always move back home.
But having kids is permanent and so that is where I would be focusing my energy.

She sees this all as a big adventure and is too young to really understand the potential misery ahead. You need to try to get her to consider all possible outcomes without telling her what to do. Ask her lots of questions. Hopefully that will get her to start thinking more deeply about it and partially remove the rose-tinted glasses. If you couid somehow manage to get her to watch 'Not without my daughter' your work would be done for you.

I’d tell her to wait a while to get pregnant until she gets the lay of the land in qatar as those places can be isolating especially if you don’t work and if he is a national she will have serious problems exerting any rights if the relationship breaks down

have a serious conversation with her. Let her know it’s not judgement or morality or anything as such. But she is an adult woman’s and this is the same conversation would have with any woman making this sort of decision. And let her know once Yog head the conversation you won’t bring it up again and you love.

the legal ramifications in this are quite serious she needs to understand. You can also point her to the sheikhs ex wife who snuck away to London to get divorced who had to spirit her kids away. It’s terrifying.

I think there's a lot more to your DD and this decision that you know or are letting on. For a 21yo woman to push herself to the extreme limits as she does with her body is one thing - everyone has their thing, it's very impressive and obviously we would all root for her. But for the same woman to simultaneously push herself through that agony and work and dedication and commitment and then give it up for pilates and tennis and a life in Qatar with a Qatari national, having previously dated a Russian fellow - both nations stereotyped for clear divisions between the sexes - is something else.

I don't think the focus ought to be on this man or this marriage or this country. I can't imagine not knowing my own child well enough to know what is driving this relentless pursuit of extremes. She sounds driven to seek out choices which are gruelling, involve self-deprivation and sacrifice, are punishing. To shun an easier/gentler/kinder life. Why does she feel she deserves this?

I could be totally off-piste, but I know a handful of extreme sportspeople and without exception they are (pardon my French) fucked up in one way or another. That drive comes from somewhere, and that's always at the root of things for them.

I would be worried too - YANBU.

She's 21 she should be having fun with her mates, girly holidays, travelling ... not tying herself down to this fella, miles away in a foreign country with a baby. I'd be so upset OP.

But how many wives does he already have? Will she be the first wife?

This.
I have vegetables in my freezer older than their relationship.

Read or watch “Not Without My Daughter” by Betty Mahmoody. With your daughter, if possible. Her husband was very secular, didn’t pray, drank liquor, etc but as soon as they went to the ME for a visit he did a 180 degree change. Apparently quite common.

It simply isn’t worth the risk.

Also Google about how foreign women raped in Qatar are imprisoned themselves for extramarital sex. Ask your daughter why she would support a culture where women are treated in that manner.

I don't think you need a 'harsher word' with her, that will probably get her back up and have her dig her heels in. Have a gentle and respectful conversation about the risks so she can make an informed decision.

This is a valid point, but not one I really know how to untangle. DD has tendencies to push herself to the extreme and has since a young age, she is a perfectionist by nature, from a young age she was incredibly motivated to push herself to the physical limit, we had to step in a lot to protect her which did create tension. Her father and I divorced when she was very small, her dad did encourage and push the sportiness.

As for relationships, all 3 she has had, have been with men who were in my opinion older than ideal for the age she was at the time (So 16 dating 21, 18/19 dating 25, 20/21 dating 28). All not British and from cultures I would say have more traditional perceptions of the role women hold in society. I can't say they have ever been bad people, but all very similar in being quiet and very protective of her, inclined to spoil her.

She is also very intense with routine, she effectively never has a lazy day, even her rest days are "active rest" and most days involve a high dose of physical activity (in the past this was lots of running, gym sessions and social sports, now its still gym, with lots of pilates and tennis). She is obsessive about her skincare routine, refuses to try new brands or products and gets visibly anxious if she is unable to complete it.

She is happy, has lots of friends, is fun to be around etc. though.

So, she seeks out older men who will look after her. She wants children, and has thought about the sort of mum she wants to be (young enough to be an active mum). She's a driven perfectionist. She's happy, has lots of friends, is fun to be around. You haven't disliked any of the men in her life, they are quiet and protective of her and like to spoil her.

Any minute now someone will tell you she is on the spectrum somewhere - I have no idea about these things. But honestly, if your radar isn't pinging that there's something off about this man, I wouldn't worry overly. I'm not going to engage in the ignorant and uneducated views on the ME as expressed here. But I would urge you to encourage your DD to consider - as I did when I married an American man and had his children in the US - what would happen to her and her DC in the unlikely event of divorce (I learned that no US judge would allow me to take my US citizen children away from their US citizen father, and I imagine it would be the same in Qatar for your DD and her children). If she's not ready to face up to this, I'd be telling her she's not ready for marriage or motherhood. She should also consider that she probably has another 60-70 years left to live, presumably with this man, and to really consider whether she's ready never to live in the UK again if she moves to his country and he doesn't want to leave his home (this is my reality now).

The issue I have is although I can't say any of her partners, including her current one have set off red flags, I also can't say I know them well at all. They have all been very quiet, visited rarely etc.
The lack of red flags doesn't necessarily mean they are wonderful (though it absolutely could), it may just be I don't know them well and DD doesn't want me to know them well.

A friend of mine (English) was cabin crew for a Middle Eastern airline.

She met a passenger who was a businessman from Egypt. They married in a registry office in the UK and they moved to Cairo and she gave up her job.

She soon became pregnant but they were living with her in-laws. His mother was quite critical of her and her husband started to make comments about her clothing and to button up her shirts to the neck and wear long skirts and long sleeved tops.

She felt suffocated; every time she went out to the shops her mother-in-law was in tow and she was never left on her own.

After her son was born her husband became more possessive and started to hit her. Fortunately her parents came to visit and they quietly cooked up a plan for her to leave Egypt with her son. She obtained a British passport for him and whilst her husband was away on business she sneaked out in the middle of the night and flew back to the UK. Perhaps in her situation it was better that Egypt wasn’t a signatory to The Hague Convention otherwise she would have had to return her child to his father in Egypt. He’s a young adult now and wishes to have no contact with his father or be raised as a Muslim.

There is a British charity, part funded by the Ministry of Justice which advises people who have had their child abducted across international borders, or fears that this may happen and how to take steps to prevent it. Perhaps your daughter could take a look at the highlighted points and see what a mess she could get herself into;

www.reunite.org

Middle Eastern countries have very different attitudes towards women than elsewhere. She’s going to be married which therefore won’t be entitled to have her own opinions or make choices for herself that’s the culture.
If she wants to marry ask her to wait two years she can at least then use her qualifications and earn some money of her own make sure she understands what she’s getting into culture wise with lots of research she should also visit before marriage and make sure she likes her in laws because they will be all she has and once she has a family she will be stuck there forever. It’s a big decision.

All you can do is talk to her without an angle. If she won't engage, it sounds like there's nothing you will be able to do but wish her the very best and hope it transpires. Sounds like she thinks she knows what she's doing (didn't we all at 21!), fx she does.

Not really sensible to use Grindr in a Muslim country. He was probably looking to meet up for sex.