DD (21) plans to get married and move abroad

[Thatonesong]

My DD is 21, she's a lovely, sociable, smart girl. She studied sports science and is now doing her MSc in Sports and Exercise Medicine. She entered into a new relationship in January, the man is 28 which to me feels like a notable age gap at 20/21, but I appreciate others may feel differently. He is from the Middle East and has made it clear he plans to move home. He proposed to DD at the start of the month, which felt quite fast since they'd been together for maybe 10/11 months at the time, but we congratulated her, she seems happy and airing our opinion is only likely to cause upset.
Tonight DD came over for dinner, without her partner. She told us she is planning to get married in the summer and then move to his home country with him in the autumn after she graduates. I asked if she has a plan for once she is there career wise and she said maybe some sports coaching but he can afford to support them both. This felt like a red flag to me as I don't want her to be fully reliant on anyone else to just survive. She was also honest and said having children is high on her priority list and she "doesn't want to wait until she's older and too tired to be an active mum". I felt a bit gobsmacked tbh, but just said she should spend some time thinking about if this all what she really wants or if she is doing it because it is what he wants/feels pressured.
Since she left I haven't been able to stop crying, my partner thinks we need to have a harsher word with her, note the risks more plainly, such as difficult getting a divorce, likely not possible to have children there, break up and move back here with them (due to The Hague Convention) etc.
I know she is an adult and entitled to make her own choices, but 21 still feels very young!
AIBU to be so concerned? What do I do?

OP, Pilates and tennis (padel) are very commonly practiced / played sports in the GCC region. I know they are here in Dubai… so perhaps she’s taking up sports that she knows will be readily available there, or maybe he’s influenced that.

It’s a very hard situation and I am so sorry you have to go through this. As I said upthread, there are times it can work out - it has for me - but you have to keep your grit and strength and determination.

Id always recommend that she has an escape plan, which I know sounds ridiculous, but it’s important she keeps aside funds / has options if needed.

if he is a Q citizen, he will have many more rights compared to a resident.

I can’t speak for Qatar as I’ve not visited, but live in Dubai and like others have said, it’s very conservative. No public displays of affection, covering up etc required. That’s across the board whether your local or an expat.

@Blizzardofleaves and I am well versed in women telling me how oppressed I must be to be married to a Middle Eastern man. I could trot out my usual counter points to what you said but typing with one knuckle mid manicure 💅 happy Christmas (omg don’t tell my husband I said happy Christmas!!!!)

Why haven’t you acknowledged the many serious risks this young adult now faces? Whilst you say you have had a good experience - so far - you haven’t had children yet, you haven’t experienced any adverse life experiences and with respect, you sound fairly young and inexperienced. Your outlook is yet to be tested or challenged by any significant life event.

Whilst your husband’s family have made you welcome, that could change in a heartbeat.

She'll be in Qatar though, it's a hell of a lot stricter than the UAE. I lived there quite happily for a while but I was married to my British husband and no children involved - marrying a local and having children there would be pretty trapping if the relationship went wrong, there would be no way she'd be allowed to take them back to the UK.
And there will be pressures on the relationship - the cultural differences will be far more apparent to her once she's actually living there, and they are not small.

Qatar isn't part of the UAE, it's a different country.

If she marries a Qatari (or other ME countries) man and has his children then she won’t have any rights over her children. The husband makes the decisions and can lawfully take the children away from the wife. There’s lots of stories of this so send them to your daughter.

I would be as concerned as you are. I would never,ever move to, or have children with someone who is from, a country which isn’t a Hague Convention signatory. Never. Nobody marries expecting divorce, but relationships break down and it can be a disaster in such circumstances.

A colleague of mine worked in Qatar for a while. Said it was an interesting experience overall, really eye opening to how free our lives are in the UK/Europe. Would never have stayed and made her life there long term.

Don't know how you can stop this but Qatar is not somewhere I would want my daughter marrying to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Qatar

Can you say you'll give it your blessing the following year but right now it's too soon?

In your place I would acknowledge all of the reasons why her boyfriend seemingly makes her happy. I would ask her what her thoughts are about quality of life in Qatar and having dc and not being allowed to bring them home if she needed to.

I would ask her thoughts on not being able to work, or run or wear shorts and what they might mean for her future (wholly dependent on a man) and how it might be for her giving birth in a foreign country without any support or even knowing the language. It could be a traumatic experience to say the least. Do so neutrally and in a light and gentle manner. Never criticise him or his culture in any way.

Ask her if has considered staying in the U.K and why it might be a good idea.

I would fly out there with her, for an extended visit in June or July when the heat is unbearable, and experience life there as it might be for her, let her come to her own conclusions.

Meet his family, see where they might live.

I can absolutely guarantee it is going to be a shock for her. At least if she still presses ahead after that she will be fully informed.

I don't know tho. He might say whatever it takes to marry her. Once there he could change his mind in a heartbeat and there's nothing she will be able to do about it. He might be ok with her beliefs now but what if his family aren't? Will he stick up for her beliefs against them?

This is why we talked to dsd and dd lots about the attitudes of different cultures to women, including our own. Also, the differences in rights between countries, womens rights over their own bodies and children, and what awful lives some women have to put up with. Also how men can seem modern and feminist supporting before marriage, but that this can rapidly change after marriage and children, especially if they have you in a very vulnerable position.

I'm not surprised you are upset op, your dd is about to give a man almost total power over her and her future children.

It's never going to end well.

Firstly, you need to take a step back and start to think middle ground.

Posts such as “she is in very grave danger” are hysterical and panicmongering and unnecessary. nobody can say that. Yes, she could be, but equally there are plenty of white women married to white British men who turn out to be abusive arseholes and they could be doing so on your doorstep, so let’s not head down the route of Middle Eastern automatically equals bad when British could be just as much so.

While I wouldn’t necessarily ike it either, the fact is that there are plenty of British women married to Middle Eastern men who aren’t in abusive marriages or having their children withheld or being subjugated. I don’t agree with a lot of the Muslim narrative, and it absolutely is true that in many Muslim countries the laws are strict, there are plenty of westerners living in these countries, if it was that bad their plight would be well known by now.

All you can do really is just say to her “you do know that in these countries a lot of women are expected to live in a certain way,” but that’s all you can do. In terms of getting her to see a solicitor to outline the “dangers” etc, absolutely not.

Whatever your thoughts are, she is an adult, and is perfectly entitled to make her own decisions, however unwise, and however much you don’t agree with them.

Part of having children is that we bring them up to become adults, and at some point we have to set them free to make their own choices and mistakes. And all we can do then is guide them, but that’s where it ends. Interference is the quickest way to lose them.

I mean I don't think you get arrested for being gay. Just if you engage in the acts?

How many years have you spent in Qatar?

I would have a talk with her and say you will support her whatever her decision, but ask that she considers a few things. Many of those things she should be sure of before she moves there are mentioned by PP (what rights she would/wouldn't have, what happens to children should they split, what jobs she will look for to keep her career in Qatar etc).

If she really will go I would strongly encourage her to move in with him but not marry or have kids in the first year, and she must meet her in laws and understand (first hand) what expectations they have of her. Maybe none - but this would be very unusual. From experience guys can be completely different when they are in UK/US to when they are back home in their own country. He may say she won't have to do x, y and z, but then ask her to act in that way, just so his parents are fine with it. You end up acting out a life - but it's not your life (if that makes sense).

On the other hand, if she sticks to the rules and her husband and in-laws are liberal and they truly love each other she could have a great life there and enjoy it.

I think the fact that the male will get legal guardianship (even where the mother gets physical custody) makes it an unusual arrangement.

I have lived in MENA and am in the GCC a lot. Many mixed marriages and they can be successful, but mostly those are of women who really, really want to become local (eg you’ve converted to Islam, your children speak Arabic and are Muslim, you don’t really allow them to ‘indulge’ in Western/Christian culture). If you expect to keep those things, it will be difficult for you.

Usually the breakdown happens when children come along—the husband somehow becomes more committed to Islam, the in-laws become more controlling, many women can start to feel trapped at this point, since you can’t just divorce and take your kids ‘home’.

Edited to add that Qatar is mad about sports so from that POV a job in her field isn’t going to be the issue here.

OP you need to find a way to go on a holiday to Qatar with her without him and without a major event on. You and your dd then need to go and visit his family. Not his dad, brothers and uncles but his mum and sisters and grandma. That will reveal more to her than you can say.

Everyone has a story of who they fell for aged 18/19/20. We were both muslim and I was getting a lot of pressure from him to get married my mum insisted I meet him mum before she met him. Quite rightly too. There was nothing wrong his mum but nothing right either. Doubts began…

Sorry OP but I would be so concerned. For all the reasons listed upthread, and also because I know someone who did this who had to fight to get back to the UK when her new husband changed on a dime.

He was sooo progressive and understanding, she didn’t listen to anyone worried about her. He offered her what she thought was a golden ticket to a life of luxury. And there was even a ‘forbidden romance’ element because - shock! - he was such a feminist he was marrying her against the wishes of his family. It would be them against the world in five star hotels rooms. It was also a whirlwind romance, engaged after like 6 months!!

it was all lies. There was no rift with his family. They were all ultra conservative, he tried to make her a baby and shag slave the minute the fucking ink was dry. Of course these aren’t the only stories out there but how come there are so many? I would honestly try and stage some kind of intervention.

Premarital sex is illegal in Qatar so she definitely shouldn’t live with him there - did you mean they should live together in the UK?

the authorities won’t care but his family certainly will! No way will they be accepting of it.

I’ve had friends who’ve married and lived in the Middle East, including Qatar and are very happy. Lots of Middle Eastern men are progressive and not overly religious. There’s often a stark contrast between the law on paper, and the reality of how people live their lives in the gulf/ Middle East. I only say this to advise on how you’ll come across to your daughter if your fear mongering appears totally in contrast to her lived reality.

Perhaps you can give general advice around avoiding pregnancy until she’s been married and lived there for at least a year. How to arrange things so her children get British citizenship. And make plans to visit for extended periods yourself so you can get a true sense of him, his family, and potential risks - rather than make assumptions that push her away from you at this early stage.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj55y7v23y0o they arrest men for arranging to meet up with other men on Grindr. So not for having sex.

I wouldn't go, just in case. No friend or family visit is worth being arrested.

The issue is that Qatar does not recognize dual citizenship, so while any children born in Qatar to a British mother and Qatari father might well hold both passports, in case of a divorce and/or custody dispute, a Qatari judge would probably ignore their British citizenship, and rule that since they are Qatari children born to a Qatari father in Qatar, they must stay in Qatar - meaning that DD would not have the right to return to live in Britain with them unless their father consents to it.

I would make your feels strongly known to her, but she has to know that you'll be here for her.

What she's imagining right now is a very pleasant life being the wife of someone quite well-off or wealthy, and being a mum with some light part-time work.

Here, her boyfriend may seem accepting of her beliefs, but once he's there and surrounded by his own culture again, and experiences the social ostracision that might come along with a non-religious wife, he might change.

She needs to understand that it's an Islamic country, and they don't tend to be great places for women.

Living together before marriage is illegal in Qatar - it's not necessarily enforced for expats, but probably would be for a Qatari man, and there's also the additional cultural/religious element meaning it would be frowned upon by his family. That's probably want to marry first. A more realistic suggestion to make is that they move in together now and live together for at least a year before marrying and moving to Qatar.