DD (21) plans to get married and move abroad

[Thatonesong]

My DD is 21, she's a lovely, sociable, smart girl. She studied sports science and is now doing her MSc in Sports and Exercise Medicine. She entered into a new relationship in January, the man is 28 which to me feels like a notable age gap at 20/21, but I appreciate others may feel differently. He is from the Middle East and has made it clear he plans to move home. He proposed to DD at the start of the month, which felt quite fast since they'd been together for maybe 10/11 months at the time, but we congratulated her, she seems happy and airing our opinion is only likely to cause upset.
Tonight DD came over for dinner, without her partner. She told us she is planning to get married in the summer and then move to his home country with him in the autumn after she graduates. I asked if she has a plan for once she is there career wise and she said maybe some sports coaching but he can afford to support them both. This felt like a red flag to me as I don't want her to be fully reliant on anyone else to just survive. She was also honest and said having children is high on her priority list and she "doesn't want to wait until she's older and too tired to be an active mum". I felt a bit gobsmacked tbh, but just said she should spend some time thinking about if this all what she really wants or if she is doing it because it is what he wants/feels pressured.
Since she left I haven't been able to stop crying, my partner thinks we need to have a harsher word with her, note the risks more plainly, such as difficult getting a divorce, likely not possible to have children there, break up and move back here with them (due to The Hague Convention) etc.
I know she is an adult and entitled to make her own choices, but 21 still feels very young!
AIBU to be so concerned? What do I do?

Please. The Quran was written in the 7th century. Islam was actually pretty pro-women's equality for the times. You can't understand the Quran without referring the Hadith (a sort of compendium of contemporaneous anecdotes about Mohammed), and that says Mohammed did housework equally, for a start. Very radical for the times. (I am a white woman who did Islam for GCSE and lived in the ME for a while, for context). Just reading the Quran is like reading the Old Testament and then declaring all Christians go around stoning folk to death.

Anyway, OP - I would warn her she may end up stuck there if she has children, and I'd ask her to delay having a family till she's sure she can get a job there and frankly, that her husband doesn't regress in attitude when he's comfortably in his home culture surrounded by conservative family members. At least make her say she'll spend a summer there before getting pregnant, as they are punishing - especially if you like going outdoors.

I think you need to start a dialogue with your daughter about what could happen if things go wrong. Not that her choices are wrong but that being in Qatar will make things far harder if they do.
Maybe watch some tv programmes like 90 Day Fiancé The Other Way or similar, which show some couples where it works out and some where it doesn’t.

My understanding in these countries is that legally the man can control the wife and prohibit her from leaving the nation as well?

Visiting Qatar will not give her any idea what it will be like living there as the wife of a Muslim man. She thinks she is in love with him but he is back in his own country living in his own culture he may very well change. She doesn’t know him well enough.

I agree with this. I’d do everything I could to stop her doing this. The consequences are unfathomable.

Yes I think you need to be more firm on this and outline what other have said. Sounds like a ridiculous plan why does he need to go back there why can’t they stay here ? I wouldn't be afraid to cause upset to try and put a stop to this.

Have you met him and do you have any concerns from his behaviour etc? I just want to reassure you if I can. My husband is from Iraq, I am English and my mother like you was terrified. I never had any concerns because I had a lot more exposure to Arab culture even before I met him. Two of my best friends are emirati, strong professional women despite being very religious and I was aware there are a lot of misconceptions. Regarding her backing away from work, please don’t think that women are not allowed to work. There is an obligation on a Muslim man to support his family (which is why he will have said that to your daughter) but if his wife chooses to work it’s to her credit and considered an act of charity (it’s actually stated in the marriage contract which also on reading isn’t what you would expect and protective of women). She’s under no obligation to handover any of her earnings to him, he’s expected to support her - that’s also stated in the marriage contract. There’s also no requirement for a Christian or Jewish woman to convert in order to marry a Muslim man. What I would say is that the culture of the particular family is key. You would be surprised but having a foreign daughter in law is often something families are proud of as it shows they are cultured, worldly etc. There is also a strong belief in Arab culture that “a son’s happiness is his wife’s happiness” so again you would be surprised HOW welcoming Middle Eastern families can be to a daughter in law. You really need to find out though more about the family though and their culture. Usually there’s a formal engagement before the marriage - perhaps you could meet them then? I know via my friends even in the most traditional emirati families (eg where in extended family gatherings men and women socialise separately - it’s a cultural thing rather than religious) the wives work where they want to. Also regarding multiple wives it is very unusual and slightly frowned upon in this younger generation to take multiple wives. I would try to see if there can be a long enough break between engagement and the actual marriage to try to do some digging and go meet the family. It’s reasonable and there are less concerns about propriety on their side as there is a formal engagement - dating isn’t a thing. I really hope this works out. Also follow Raya Al Khalifa on Instagram, she’s Qatari and is always trying to emphasise who things aren’t as you expect. I cannot emphasise how kind and welcoming my husband’s family have been and continue to be 5 years on. I really hope your daughter experiences the same xxx

If she has any gay friends or family they won't be able to visit as they'll risk arrest.

She would have to coach women. What sports can she coach? Are they popular in Qatar?
She should consider that her skills may not be wanted. To give her an idea of how valued women's sports are there: The Olympic team in 2024 consisted of 12 men and 1 woman. It was 13:3 in 2020, 36:2 in 2016, and 12:4 in 2012 when they sent women for the very first time.

I understand that the Dubai-style bling leisurely life appeals to some people, and no doubt she wants a bit of a lazy break after uni. But short trips to Qatar don't give an accurate representation of real life.

This. I think it would be a huge mistake, too but how exactly would you prevent it?

I agree with all of this as well. This will sound very very rude but I'd question and worry about a white British dd marrying an older Muslim man even if they didn't move to the middle east.

This might be a good idea. If YOU tell her these things, it might feel like you are being unsupportive, but could you find someone who can offer her independent legal advice about her rights in different scenarios?

If it was me, I'd find an advisor with relevant Qatar expertise (solicitor? university professor?), and speak to them on my own first of all, to make sure they seemed like someone my daughter would listen to and respect. Then I'd take my daughter to have a meeting with them, where I just let them talk to her about her options for work / education / independence / divorce / custody over children etc. Then she has the facts.

I would also see if you can find any support groups online where there might be women who have done this and can tell your daughter what it's like - positive and negative experiences.

Good luck, OP - this is very tricky.

I don't know how you would prevent it but would be as concerned as you in your shoes.

Are you sure he is not married already. Many ME men marry really young. Then they are allowed four wives at any point of time. This happened to an American friend quite a few years back. She fell i love with an Emirati student studying in a college in the US. It was just a month before the wedding that she figured that he was married off to his cousin before he came to study in the US.
He was not able to see why this was an issue to her as she had agreed to marry a man who could have four wives.

Any chance the Home office could do a block on her passport or refuse the travel to the gulf states? I know that in India there have something similar to protect vulnerable citizens from being exploited by the gulf states.

I really hope you manage to talk her out of it OP, this is a very risky path to take.

I had a friend who moved to USA for a year. Fell in move, got married and had kids in 20s. All fine.

It wasn't until her parents became elderly that she realised just how hard it was. Missed the death of her Mum because of travel time, very worried about her Dad living alone. Her brother has three kids and lives an hour away from their Dad and she gets really homesick seeing all the photos. She is sad the cousins aren't growing up together.

That's without the women's rights and cultural issues. Is this something that she might want to consider?

"Holding hands for married couples is accepted but kissing or any other public displays of affection are considered offences against public decency."

Among other things... 🫣

Oh, OP... 😩

Sorry just wanted to add as a follow up I really didn’t want to minimise your concerns in anyway, they are valid and most importantly you and she need to go there and meet his family, see the set up, and understand how she will live. I suppose I just wanted to try to say that it often isn’t at all what we expect (fear) based on what we see/hear prior to actual exposure to the culture which can actually be wonderful. I know a number of mixed very happy marriages. But you HAVE to go there and meet his family and see the set up, that’s just common sense and it may be she doesn’t like what she sees depending on what his family are like; where they would live etc. I would marry an Iraqi again and I love his family& vice versa and we are split between here and there. I stopped working about six months after I was married, but I hated my job and was crazy stressed and he was happy to support me xx

You haven’t listed the reasons why it might extremely risky.

You haven’t mentioned the lack of human rights for women, the lack of a transparent legal system, rape is legal in marriage, the status of women generally and how they are expected to walk behind men - even their sons.

You have failed to mention the hijab and the unbearable heat. The men being allowed to have many wives. The placing of those wives. The compliance. The culture of silence. The lack of protection if things start to go wrong. The lack of support she will inevitably suffer in pregnancy and childbirth. The fact many men do not let their wives work or even go out without a guardian. It’s unlikely they will have the choice what their child is called, where it is schooled or their faith. Or the biggest one of all, she will never be allowed to leave with her children without her dh’s permission and he can take them anywhere he chooses at any time.

You have seemingly glided over all of the harsh realities and risks and not mentioned a single one.

And your user name gives you away somewhat slightlyterrifedbutpolite.

Thank you everyone. I will be honest, I have woke up this morning and I feel even more concerned than I did last night.
DD called me to discuss Christmas plans and I carefully asked if she was planning to convert/still celebrate Christmas next year. She told me she has no plans to convert to Islam and her partner is aware of her "agnostic beliefs". He is a Qatari citizen, so I worry she is being naive.
She has changed so much over the last year, she has been in a long term relationship before (with a Russian no less, she has quite the thing for men from states with highly contentious human rights/women's rights records), but even then she was still herself. She has gone from spending lots of the summer out doing sports, beach volleyball, surfing etc. and the winter skiing to just being spoiled rotten. Before this relationship she was training for an ultramarathon, had run two marathons, done a tough mudder infinity (25 mile tough mudder) etc. now her active life seems to consist of pilates and tennis, which is obviously fine but very out of character for her!

What's it like for a non Muslim expat woman?

It’s ok to let her know your concerns. NOT about her choice of partner (that will never go well), but about the importance of research into the lifestyle and laws of the country she plans to move to.
Read up on the information PPs have posted on citizenship and children. Do you think you could influence her thoughts in the direction of an IUD/implant here in UK before she gets married? And she can always travel back to have it removed in a year or two when she has found her bearings.
Maybe there are some people who can give more advice or insight on another board, ex-pats in the ME?

This isn't just true of the middle east though. Generally when parents split up the children are considered to be at home in the country they are living in and one parent can't just unilaterally decide to move them to their home country.

@Blizzardofleaves My username was in fact from when I posted previously asking for advice about an upcoming endometriosis surgery…