To think some people are taking life advice from dysfunctional people and wrecking good relationships?

[YourJadeLion]

I’m seeing more and more women online and in real life leave loyal, supportive partners because someone on the internet told them they “deserve more” or “shouldn’t settle.” And the people giving that advice are often living chaotic, emotionally unstable or completely unaccountable lives. Some of these women had husbands who were faithful, consistent and kind but got convinced that because their relationship wasn’t hyper-romantic or perfectly Instagrammable, it wasn’t enough.

I’m all for leaving toxic or abusive relationships. But AIBU to think a lot of women are being manipulated by dysfunction disguised as empowerment and they’ll end up lonely, regretting it and wondering where it all went wrong?

(Not anti-feminism. Just pro-critical thinking.)

‘Humans are social creatures’. Being single does not preclude anyone from being social or having sex. Both are easily available whilst single.

‘Generally speaking we are happier when we form close attachments.’ Who are you speaking for here? Yourself? That’s fine. But not me. Also ‘close attachments’ aren’t limited to a bloke. You can form a close attachment with a woman or family member.

Sure, but many want to be in a committed relationship.It's great you love being single. But it's not for everyone, probably not even most. Many single people wish they weren't.

What a lot of nonsense.

If a relationship is "good" the person is not going to be asking for advice on Mumsnet in the first place...

People are right to encourage someone who is an an abusive relationship or who is with a partner who cheats or is generally lazy, disrespectful or does not do their share of childcare and so on.

Women don't need to put up with unequal, shitty relationships anymore and that is a good thing.

"Generally speaking" means I am speaking of people in general. Not you in particular. And yes I am aware people can have all kinds of attachments.

how do you know what people in general like? You can only know what you like. And societal expectations. I do wonder, if we started life again, and didn’t tell everyone that coupling up with a member of the opposite sex was the norm, how many people would choose to.

Very well put.

Honestly, I don’t agree. I think most people coming out of a relationship tend to think getting into another is as appealing as drinking hot sick. I just don’t think saying the grass is definitely greener is a coherent view. You can’t possibly know. What is known though is the affects it has on children.

Look I don't think it's productive to discuss this with since you are clearly extremely invested in singledom. Essentially all of human history and behaviour tells us that generally speaking people seek out pair bonds. Other mammals do the same. I'm happy you enjoy being single so much but it is not going to become the default state of being.

I don't see people posting about normal flaws and being told to leave, only major/abusive ones.

I assume this isn't mumsnet you are talking about though as you wouldn't know so much about the background of people advising on mumsnet. This must be people you know well in real life who are living chaotic, emotionally unstable or completely unaccountable lives and advising others to leave.

I would be more concerned about people in shit relationships advising others to stay in bad relationships because they have low standards.

I've got high standards because I had a good marriage for 20 years that only ended because my dh died. So yes, I do sometimes marvel at what women are prepared to put up with. Sometimes they can't see they are being abused. Someone with crap standards telling them to stay is helping no one.

People create opposite sex pair bonds because its a prerequisit of the continuation of the species. However the idea that the bond created to conceive should be long lasting and exclusive is a societal construct.
We know we are a social species and that bonds with others of our species are important to our survival, physical and mental health. What we don't know is that these bonds require a man and a woman joined in lifelong commitment, or even that this is the most functional means to meet our social and emotional needs.
In fact there is evidence that this can be something of a one way street, with married men having better outcomes and single women having better outcomes.
There are also societies where people spend most of their time and give and recieve support from members of their own sex.
We have this way of life primarily because of the benefits it brings to a male dominated society. It dates back to men wanting a woman of their own to impregnate and facilitate their physical comfort, who they could own and other men could not access thus ensuring her children continued his genetic line. In return the woman was fed and protected from other men.
In the modern world we are able to earn to feed ourselves and have laws to protect us from harm, so we are not in such need of our side of the bargain.
I'm not invested in being single (I'm not single) but nor do I believe that being one part of a couple for life is either driven by nature or necessary to the wellbeing of women. Though evidence shows its of significant value to men.

Spot. On.

I think what tends to happen, is people try and hide their partner's shitty behaviour out of embarrassment until they split.
So to the outside world it can seem as though someone is walking out abruptly on a pretty decent relationship.
I'm sure that's what it looked like to the outside world when I left my ex husband.
Because I would have been mortified for people to know about the affairs, financial abuse, selfishness, aggressive behaviour etc. I hid it from everyone apart from a close friend and my sister.

I think it's the setting of expectations though.

What is a happy fulfilling marriage? Does it have to be like that every day to be a good one?

I think people are so exhausted they forget that for every annoying thing a dh does, they’ve their own idiosyncrasies and kooky things that their dh could leave them for. I was giving out about dh to a friend one day saying I wanted something one way he wanted it another and she asked ‘so did you come to a compromise?’ and I was so embarrassed, no we’d butted heads. I went home and said simply ‘I’d there a compromise to this?’ and we were laughing about it within minutes. Had someone said ‘boundaries’ or ‘he’s not respecting you’ etc I was so fired up I’d have opened a can of worms and we could be done! We’re not in an amazing place now but just giving an example

An ex colleague has just qualified as a life coach. Currently going through her third divorce and bitching non-stop about her ex all over social media.

An ex uni friend too. Now in her 40s but has never had a serious relationship or actual job, and is living off of her wealthy parents whilst making a pittance as an aspiring life coach.

And a woman at school has just qualified as a 'parenting coach.' Her DC are notoriously badly behaved, violent and rude, and she doesnt actually seem to do any parenting at all whilst they scream their way down the school drive in the morning, kicking and punching her.

I'm not sure any of these people are someone I would pay for advice. Who the hell is handing out these qualifications?

No, not every day of course. But overall, yes it does.
My point was, people are generally capable of knowing if overall they are happy and fulfilled. If in the context of this, their partner does something that causes minor annoyance and they vent, on here or to friends, and are then told LTB. They are not going to do so. Particularly if the thing really is minor, in which case the views if the LTB people will be balanced by others advising otherwise.
I don't care what anyone says, There is no pattern of women ending happy marriages to 'supportive and loyal' men because 'lonely bitter' women on line are telling them to. Its arrant nonsense, not supported by evidence from divorce stats, or even by a single example where someone can prove this happened.

Leaving someone is a big upheaval. People don't do it without good reason.

I agree

Perfectly put @5128gap. I hate that women label happily single women as bitter or unfulfilled. I was married for a long time, had kids, and am now divorced/single and have never experienced contentment like it.

I agree. People are expecting perfection without recognising they also have flaws that their partner overlooks. None of us are perfect.

Hmmmmm I suspect you'd think I was one of those women.

When in fact, I loll happily on the sofa alone in the warmth of my quiet home of an evening (aka now) and do what ever the fuck I like.

I wouldn't have it any other way. I can do whatever I like, go wherever I want, and behave however I like.

I've been married. I've had another LTR. No thank you.

Fair enough, there is a lot of LTB on Mumsnet. But assuming women living alone are sad, pathetic and lonely is a massive misinterpretation. There is a reason the people who live longest out of all groups are single women.

But many husbands wouldn’t compromise, that’s the point. Lots of men want everything on their own terms, they’re old fashioned and don’t see marriage as a partnership. They fake it until they start to get bored (usually when children come along). They’re not prepared to sacrifice their hobbies. They don’t want to fulfil their share of the parenting. They expect their wives to run around after them like they are their mothers, and then wonder why they go off sex with them. They have no respect for their wives. They are completely thoughtless and self-absorbed.

Yet at the same time they’re not necessarily abusive. They might appear quite laid-back and jovial on the surface, and enjoy playing Dad for two hours on a Sunday or whenever it fits into their schedule.

That isn’t a marriage. It takes two people to make it work. Men are usually happy to check-out, but stay in the marriage as long as their domestic needs are met. Women shouldn’t have to stay in a lonely, desperately unhappy marriage while shouldering the sole burden of child-rearing just because her husband isn’t abusive.

We deserve relationships that are mutually rewarding. I’m old enough to know that men like this don’t change, no matter how many years and how much effort you put in hoping that things will magically turn around.

Yes this