Does Anyone know what a birthing person is ?

[Teacupover5]

Listening to Nicky Campbell on 5 live this morning 9-10 minutes in if anyone wants to listen again .Guest is discussing investigation into declining standards in maternity services .
Refers to women and birthing people being let down .
AIBU to not understand what a birthing person is ,and to wonder if this focus on inclusivity has had an impact on declining care for women ?

A birthing person is technically anyone who is giving birth, but as they have said “women and birthing people” it will mean someone who doesn’t identify as a woman who will be giving birth, i.e. non binary people and transmen who haven’t had bottom surgery.

Not sure how this will affect women’s care specifically, as surely everyone who is giving birth will be going through largely the same care?

I don’t like a lot of this language, I find it overly complex, unclear and tedious. However, a birthing person is just a woman who chooses not to identify as one. So it’s not like they’re suddenly catering to men with delusions of baby making. It’s just women, and women who’d prefer not to be referred to as one. I can’t get worked up over it at an individual level - midwives should be encouraged to refer to someone however that person would feel most comfortable. But I do think changing the language to suit a tiny tiny minority of all the ‘people’ giving birth feels like a waste of everyone’s time.

I'm fairly sure you know exactly what it means and you're being deliberately goady.

Wow you’re tiresome aren’t you?

I found it hilarious listening to Woman’s Hour yesterday (Monday) about the same thing. They had a doctor and a newspaper researcher on and one of them (not sure which) kept tripping herself up. She would say ‘mother and birthing person’, mother, she, her, ‘birthing person and mother’ throughout her segment. I don’t recall her saying he or they thought. It was incredibly disappointing to hear her be unable to toe the TRA mantra consistently. I could feel the transphobia seeping out of the car radio.

Chest feeding is the one that gets on my nerves.

Women give birth, even if you don’t identify as one that’s fine but your biology does hence why you’re able to birth. The language is getting out of hand.

Only women can be mothers so the term 'birthing person' is totally redundant.

Gender identity only ever harms women so we shouldn't have to kowtow to the demands of women who simultaneously agree with an ideology that harms women whilst doing something that only women can do.

I agree that this focus on ideology impacts on care, it also impacts on single sex spaces for women.

It means the person using this terminology doesn't know that the name for. Human who has given birth is mother. To reduce a mother to a made up term is pathetic.

And yet here she is doing the only thing in all of humanity that women can do - give birth.

Yes. You’re being unreasonable, or you’ve been living under a rock.

It’s pretty obvious to most that its people who don’t identify as women but are giving birth.

Very unlikely to cause confusion given its use alongside women so those who identify as women should be clear that information applies to them.

Decline in services is capability, standards, performance management and funding related. Not language.

Personally I think we need everyone who's about to give birth ideally to engage properly with maternity services so I have no issue with this use of language as long as the term women is still included. I don't like the idea of it 'replacing' female specific language (eg women, mother, breasts etc) or using neutral language instead of female body specific language but quite happy for there to be both used together to cater to more people including minority groups and to help some people who may find the experience of childbirth harder for some reasons to feel safer if that's what it gives them.

They mean women.

They are probably also including women who are so mentally ill they believe they are a man or women so desperate for attention and validation that they will force their own children to pretend they aren't a woman or their mother.

I dont believe these two groups could be the same, as surely anyone who was absolutely convinced they were a man wouldn't then turn around and do the one thing that any man never ever could.

I'm fairly sure they do know that, they're just choosing to add on another term.

Silly it may be, but there's no need for the goady smug disingenuous "but what does it meeaaaannn?"

Exactly. No one is going to refer to you as a birthing parent who chest feeds because you don’t want them to.

Anyone who believes that a creep in language doesn't impact the care of women is frankly deluded.

We have a male medical doctor who insists that he is 'biologically female' and has said he won't reveal his sex to women who want single sex care & think that women are bigoted for wanting this.

Allowing birthing parent to creep in, enables the removal of sex based distinctions.

We already know that women's health issues tend to be overlooked, it's wholly naive to think that issues around language won't compound this.

No you are not being unreasonable in the slightest.

Guess that means I lose my woke brownie points though?

It’s not silly, it’s unnecessary. If people use unnecessary language whose purpose is solely to erase womanhood, they deserve to be treated like a stroppy child.

Explain to me how expecting someone to use ‘birthing person’ makes the woman feel safer?

I assumed from the OP title this was about doulas.. that would make some sense.

yes birthing partners used to be a thing. Not a wild stretch to understand birthing parent to be the dad.

When someone says "women and other people who give birth" they are saying that "women" aren't simply "the people with the bodies that can give birth", but something more specific than that. Something that only some of the people with the bodies that can give birth are.

Which means they believe "women" are people with a certain type of personality.

Which is fucking offensive to women IMO.

And it's bad enough when it's a person doing it, but when it's a public or official body? When it's your fucking employer? When it's a hospital that's telling you if you are a "woman", you must only be part of the sum of possibilities open to the half of humanity who are female, because some of those possibilities belong to "birthing people" instead? Fuck that!

Yes exactly. I loathe the pollution of female centred language and I've spent long enough on FWR to know what is implied by the term birthing person, but putting my personal options on this to one side, I genuinely think that "women and birthing people" could be misunderstood to mean "women and (their) birthing support people" i.e someone in a midwife or doula type role.

Is it really that hard to understand? If you are someone who identifies as non binary, or trans or a-gender I think it's very understandable that you may feel more comfortable with your health care being provided by someone who recognises that that neutral language is important to you and that you worry about how you're going to be perceived or judged or that you are maybe experiencing significant dysphoria as a result of being pregnant and going through labour. It's a very small way for a healthcare provider to let their patient know that they understand that this is distressing for you and they will work to meet your needs while still providing care to you according to your biological sex.

I can see how it also would feel much less safe if your healthcare provider refused this, insisted on using a term you were uncomfortable with and instead were determined to put their agenda and their views ahead of your needs at a time when you're at your most vulnerable and quite dependent on them. Do you think that would make those people more or less likely to engage with maternity services? Do you think it would make their birth experience more or less positive for them? Especially given that we know that a positive birth experience where someone feels safe an supported and listened to, directly correlates with incidents of pnd, ppa, ptsd.

If you are a woman born female then this will not apply to you as that language would be unnecessary in your presence. This is a separate issue than women being able to access women only spaces and being able to be treated by a biologically female hcp.

Only women give birth. I'm sick of language being twisted to accommodate someone else's delusion. It's not "being kind". It's the same as agreeing with someone with an eating disorder that they're fat when they're not.

And stop all the nonsense about making a woman feel "unsafe" (whatever that means) by calling her a woman WHILE SHE IS GIVING BIRTH. Affirming a harmful delusion is what is "unsafe".