To tell them not to bother coming for Xmas?

[WantToHibernate]

We are doing Xmas dinner this year for my husbands family and my mum and brother. We have a mix of vegans, vegetarians and meat eaters so dinner menu will reflect this.

I’ve been vegan for 20 years and my daughter who is 17 has become vegan this year. My husband and other child eat meat.

My mother and brother have always disapproved of me being vegan. Over the years they’ve told me I’m wrong and will be ill. They also do stupid things like make animal noises when they eat meat which I just roll my eyes at. Now they’ve found out, whilst discussing Xmas dinner menus at our house this weekend, that my daughter has become vegan and they’ve responded as expected, telling her she’ll be ill, that she shouldn’t listen to me ‘brainwashing and bullying’ her, quizzing her on why she has become vegan, telling her she’s mad and no better than them. My daughter remained calm, said it was her decision, that I obviously haven’t bullied or brainwashed her, that she doesn’t think she’s any better than anyone else, she just wants to be vegan. When they continued were quiz her on why she has become a vegan, they called her a ‘typical preachy vegan’. She wasn’t preaching, she just answered their questions.

Things got heated as my mother started shouting. I told her that she doesn’t get to shout at my daughter in our house about this, and that if they both don’t stop the comments they can leave and not bother coming for Xmas. My brother said our mum can say what she likes and that I owed my mum an apology for saying that. My daughter left the room. My son told my mum and brother that they were out of line and went to check on my daughter. My mum and brother left.

My brother text later on to say that when they come on Xmas day they don’t want to be seated by me or my daughter. I’ve not responded as I wanted to cool down before I did, but my husband has said to just uninvited them because they’re arseholes and he’s not risking them upsetting our daughter on Xmas day. My daughter says she isn’t bothered and thinks they’re idiots.

If I uninvite them, I think that will probably be the end of my relationships with them but I think that is possibly for the best. There have been lots of problems with them over the years and I think we may be happier without them. They have had issues with other aspects of our life, choices we’ve made, my husbands family (who are all lovely) who they see as ‘snobby’, so the vegan issue is just another thing. They are ok is small doses. My other siblings have low or no contact with them and although I invited them to dinner too, they won’t come because our mother and brother are coming.

Agree. And they are demanding that they don't sit next to the host!

YANBU. Making animal noises at the table? They sound like morons.

If you want your brother to break free from your mother, he needs to learn that behaving like her leads to alienation from his siblings. So yes, it's a harsh lesson, but one he needs to learn.

I basically agree with this but it sounds like OP has trodden a fine balance. The important thing is he understands that this is a consequence of her behaviour (and his in supporting hers) but unfortunately after setting these boundaries she will be the one left whispering in his ear.

Which will have no effect.

Both mother and brother have demonstrated that they think they have the right to say what they want, and that any challenge to that demands apology, or the right to be protected (by seating plan) from anyone they wish to insult.

They watched the OP, her Ds and her DH show in different ways that their behaviour was unacceptable… and yet persist with ‘when I come and accept your hospitality make sure I don’t have to be near you’

Why would they now listen to a rational calm normal approach which would need them to compromise their behaviour?

Too much of a risk.

And for what benefit to the OP and her family?

Downgrade the invitation to visit only, not Christmas dinner. They will probably decline.

It's breathtakingly rude and disrespectful of him. Do you think your mum asked him to send it? Maybe call him and ask him as neutrally as you can how it came about, and judge it from there. Whoever got it in their head that it is acceptable to tell a host that they are allowed to do all the work but too disgusting to sit next to? You were trying to be nice but everyone has limits, and them starting on your daughter is a really normal place to draw the line.

Exactly this.

i wouldn’t have them in the house at Christmas, and I wouldn’t be in a hurry to have them over ever again.

This, the audacity!

Say no more to them op. Straighten that spine.

Hopefully your brother will open his eyes in time.

But this time, daughter first. Your husband has your back.

They’re being unreasonable. You obviously don’t force your choices on anyone as half your household eat meat. They sound like they lack emotional maturity. They won’t change & how your brother has the audacity to dictates that he sits nowhere near you in your own home is quite astounding. However, the choice of taking an action that could result in you never having a relationship with your family is only yours to make.

They sound bloody awful. Veganism is definitely not for everyone, but providing nobody is preaching and putting others off their food with tales of animal welfare and slaughter, then it really is a personal choice that should be respected. Particularly when you're planning to be a good host and offer a range of food! How on earth can someone accept another person's hospitality, whilst demanding they don't sit next to the host?! Cut them loose, op. Invite your other sibling. And don't think any more of it - they are clearly in the wrong, no matter how much they will attempt to paint you as unreasonable. You're 100% not.

What about “Hi brother, I was really sad to get your message. Of course it is not possible to have guests, including family, in my house who refuse to sit next to me or my daughter. We do not criticise or restrict your eating choices, and all choices are catered for on Christmas Day. We just make our own choices. Which you and Mum insult and belittle at length. You and Mum showed that you feel you have the right to continue like that, so you will now need to make your own arrangements for Christmas elsewhere. We will drop off presents on xx date, Happy to be in touch in the NY or future if you want to talk or ever need me. Your sister. “

Does your husband just idly stand by spectating as they treat his wife like this?

They’re prepared to eat your food but don’t want to sit next to you or your daughter, just because you’re vegan? That’s bloody madness!
I’d text back that they’ll have to make alternative arrangements this year (and every year) because the atmosphere will obviously be too tense. It might be the beginning of your brother waking up to what your mother is like.

I can see from your replies how difficult this decision must be for you to take.

You have pretty much had universal support that it’s OK to ditch your mother and brother for Christmas lunch due to their behaviour. Even better, it sounds like you may even be able to have the company of your siblings if you do.

So to outsiders like me, it’s a Win-Win scenario. Easy peasy, done and dusted.

But I can see that you still feel responsible for your brother, in spite of everything. This is very commendable of you and shows you have a kind heart in spite of a horrible upbringing. It will be hard for you to ‘abandon’ your brother even though he seems so indoctrinated by his mother. How old is he?

I think your head knows that you are “allowed” to do this, but your heart won’t let you. This feeling of being overly responsible for another’s persons feelings is very common when you have had a dysfunctional upbringing.

I read an interesting article about recognising the difference between guilt and responsibility (already forgotten where I found it). But have a look at this and Parentification/Toxic Parents/Going Low Contact - something may help you to have more clarity.

I remember first hearing the phrase, Don’t set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm - that really helped me see things in a different way.

I could not tolerate disrespectful behaviour towards my family, in my own home. Send them a polite message along the lines of:

The way you spoke to [DD] at the weekend was unacceptable, and the message afterwards confirmed that things are still tense. I’m not willing to have conflict in our home on Christmas Day.
For that reason, we won’t be hosting you this year.
I hope you have a good Christmas.

He's a grown man. And it sounds as though he's always been given a pass on his own behaviour - there's no reason why he's ended up like his mother other than his own willingness to be like her. Cancelling this Xmas will hopefully clarify for him that he has two paths - be like his mother and alienate himself, or be like his sister and be embraced by a loving family that does not whisper bile into his ear. If he chooses his mother's path, so be it.

Also OP, to pick up on what a pp said about your husband has your back… he does and that is in vain if you take any more of this from your Mum and brother.

It shows what a strong bond you have, as your son defended his sister and went to check on her.

Turn to them.

It’s hard setting loose from your parents and siblings, look up FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) and how it traps us.

But you have built a true family in your DH and Dc.

Obviously you need to uninvite them.

Unless of course you want to inflict some revenge. Invite them and cook an entirely vegan Christmas dinner.

I wrote an expansive post but this site/my internet connection crashed.
So, I’ll be brief, look up Fragile Ego Syndrome. You will never alter the mindset of these people. Anything which challenges their views is like a personal insult to them. Be a tiger mum and defend your children.
Make it clear they are unwelcome if they intend to be confrontational of your or your children’s personal choices.

They sound like idiots ..making animal noises while they’re eating meat .
While you and your daughter are happily eating vegan foods .
(I am a flexitarian , I will eat a lot of vegan and vegetarian foods but also eat some fish and chicken too )
I think I’d be tempted to uninvite them ..but maybe this year have the conversation with them that won’t be tolerated in your home and that if they’d like to have Christmas dinner with you then they need to behave .

@WantToHibernate sounds like a difficult situation for you, and it's admirable that you've kept trying for your youngest db's sake, but your dh is correct.. uninvite them both.

Agree - @WantToHibernate I truly think you have no choice but to uninvite them and tell them why. That their behaviour generally and specifically towards your child was unforgivable and that they will never be welcome in your home unless they a) apologise and b) change their behaviour.

At least now you can have a wonderfully vegan inclusive Christmas with people you care about and who respect you and your children.

I agree with what @jenny38 said - it is less confrontational than going 'no contact' but draws a line in the sand about what you will and will not accept in the name of the relationship. But I would also be clear that verbally attacking your dd for her perfectly legitimate choices will not be tolerated.

I imagine that they will distance themselves after that and that is no bad thing. But it leaves the door ajar to your younger brother who is obviously hugely influenced by your mum and may - at some point in the future - have his own 'awakening' and want to build relationships with his siblings.

They sound awful. And the request not to sit near to you (the host!) and your daughter is ridiculous. I would absolutely uninvite them and not feel bad about it at all. Show your daughter what boundaries are and that you have her back.

I'm sorry your mum and brother are such twats. I would be disinviting them if it was me.