To tell them not to bother coming for Xmas?

[WantToHibernate]

We are doing Xmas dinner this year for my husbands family and my mum and brother. We have a mix of vegans, vegetarians and meat eaters so dinner menu will reflect this.

I’ve been vegan for 20 years and my daughter who is 17 has become vegan this year. My husband and other child eat meat.

My mother and brother have always disapproved of me being vegan. Over the years they’ve told me I’m wrong and will be ill. They also do stupid things like make animal noises when they eat meat which I just roll my eyes at. Now they’ve found out, whilst discussing Xmas dinner menus at our house this weekend, that my daughter has become vegan and they’ve responded as expected, telling her she’ll be ill, that she shouldn’t listen to me ‘brainwashing and bullying’ her, quizzing her on why she has become vegan, telling her she’s mad and no better than them. My daughter remained calm, said it was her decision, that I obviously haven’t bullied or brainwashed her, that she doesn’t think she’s any better than anyone else, she just wants to be vegan. When they continued were quiz her on why she has become a vegan, they called her a ‘typical preachy vegan’. She wasn’t preaching, she just answered their questions.

Things got heated as my mother started shouting. I told her that she doesn’t get to shout at my daughter in our house about this, and that if they both don’t stop the comments they can leave and not bother coming for Xmas. My brother said our mum can say what she likes and that I owed my mum an apology for saying that. My daughter left the room. My son told my mum and brother that they were out of line and went to check on my daughter. My mum and brother left.

My brother text later on to say that when they come on Xmas day they don’t want to be seated by me or my daughter. I’ve not responded as I wanted to cool down before I did, but my husband has said to just uninvited them because they’re arseholes and he’s not risking them upsetting our daughter on Xmas day. My daughter says she isn’t bothered and thinks they’re idiots.

If I uninvite them, I think that will probably be the end of my relationships with them but I think that is possibly for the best. There have been lots of problems with them over the years and I think we may be happier without them. They have had issues with other aspects of our life, choices we’ve made, my husbands family (who are all lovely) who they see as ‘snobby’, so the vegan issue is just another thing. They are ok is small doses. My other siblings have low or no contact with them and although I invited them to dinner too, they won’t come because our mother and brother are coming.

I can't see how Christmas could run smoothly/peacefully with your Mum there.

So an uninvited/change might be best?

A compromise might be Boxing Day tea for your Mum.

I think you are a saint offering 3 meals/variations of.

We went vegetarian 40 years ago, all children vegetarian - despite dire warnings from health visitor with the first one.

Our 2 girls went a step further and became vegan and then gently shamed us into it 10+ years ago.

My DM and DMIL coped well, (although lasagne with tinned spaghetti between the layers is odd!)

My Dad was awkward with my DD's girlfriend about veganism - and she wasn't vegan.

I've friend who will tease me about veganism - but its light hearted, not aimed at my children - and accepts the reverse back (And is happy to eat my vegan cakes)

When they came for Christmas etc they got what they were given - a meal with no dead stuff. Everyone did.

All the best. Happy Christmas - hopefully!

Oh surely it will be, without those two.
OP has a bit of time now during which to douse any feelings about guilt or other unjustified emotion like it, so that by Christmas week things ought to be more serene.
There’s no tit for tat going on; it’s that OP has been forced into this position by a barrage of direct insults, threats, and grotesque behaviour.
If she were to ignore that and allow them to be present for 🎄day, she’d be throwing her own immediate family under a bus just to appease them.
I read it all as an example of a clear right vs wrong situation for her, really.

(I think the phones could be left on silent for Christmas Day though, so that her mother and brother aren't able to harsh the atmosphere in any way!)

@WantToHibernate once all of your guests have arrived can you disconnect or switch off the buzzer/bell from your electric gate?

There are some people in the world who are so confused/offended/disgusted that other people can choose not to eat animal products that they can't resist trying to provoke a reaction and will bring it up out of nowhere to get a rise. As a lifelong vegetarian I have experienced this more times than I can count. I never bring up that I don't eat meat (even more so since I've gone vegan) unless it's relevant to the conversation and even then (for example if it's about choosing a restaurant) I am as accommodating as possible and will happily eat a plate of chips while everyone else eats meat if that's all there is on offer. Despite this I have had innumerable people try to start a 'debate' with me by being combative and frankly rude about my choices. It's like a sport for some people.

They will most likely not be able to stop themselves kicking off when they come. They will spoil the day for all of you.
rescind the invite.
ask husband family instead.

having read your updates, it sounds as if your brother is very heavily influenced by your mum and his behaviour reflects this. If you’re keen to keep the door open to him then I’d probably respond to say that your mum isn’t welcome at your home any more, but that your brother is still welcome as long as he’s respectful.
He likely won’t come, but at least you’re not closing the door on him

Me personally, I’d probably tell them both to fuck off if they spoke to my children that way, but I understand it’s not always so simple when it’s your own family.

How did they get ill? Low iron, lost weight, low B12? The mistake a lot of people do when going vegan is they eat lots of bulky carbs and veg and little protein, they also misunderstand what good vegan protein is - I've heard nuts and lentils being touted as good vegan protein and they really aren't. Lentils are good for you but they are high carb foods not high protein and nuts are so high in fat that to get a good protein serving you'd have to eat way too many calories and too much fat. Alternatively they go silly and eat nothing but UPF as their protein source. A fit active man with a lot of muscle needs to eat better than that. It's all possible without supplements and UPF but it requires self education and effort.

You've done the right thing. On one hand you've got your brother and mum and ranged on the other side is all your other siblings, your ILs and your DH. It's awful that they've put you in a position by their behaviour that you have to choose between them, but you've done the right thing.

The vegan thing is a red herring. If it wasn't that, it would be something else they'd find to criticise and make fun of and it sounds like the aim is definitely to bring you down a peg or two.

On the subject of the younger brother, I think you've also done the right thing trying to get across a unified message between all you siblings to him that you're all there for him when he tries to break away from her. We had a similar issue with DH's youngest brother - their dad had filled his head with lots of "oh, you're the most like me, you're the one that'll always be there for me, I'll be alone without you, all the rest are ungrateful but you're amazing" etc. Also the youngest sibling with a big age gap to the older ones.

The thing that worked to break him away was to have the younger brother move in with us for long enough that he could see that we were actually the normal ones, we were a loving family getting ahead in the world and with tonnes of family and friend support compared to the dad who lives a sad small life with no friends and no family talking to him as he had driven them all away. It also showed him that we didn't sit around plotting and scheming how to destroy their dad all day, in fact we seldom even thought of him except to worry about the younger brother!! He's still closer to their dad than the rest, and more in denial when the dad behaves badly, but he's still young - I fear one day their dad will turn on him and he'll be wounded to the core. I wish the rest of the family could protect him from it but I fear he'll have to be deeply (emotionally) hurt like all the other kids were hurt before he can fully break free.

Book the local pub where they all pick their own menu. You can have the veggie options.

Sounds like binning them off with make your life better OP.

Have the row. It'll feel weird for a bit but it sounds as if you'll be better for it.

Dear Bro, After a moments consideration I have solved the seating problem to suit everybody . Hope you and Mum enjoy cooking and eating your Christmas dinner at home. We do have some presents for you, let me know a day/ time when they can be dropped off.

I wonder who the 1% are who think you're BU..

You've done the right thing. Enjoy your Christmas.

I'm really pleased you have binned them OP. I mentioned my mother's toxic family upthread. Basically what you have just displayed to your daughter is that you have her back, and her well-being comes first in the face of awful toxicity. She'll remember that. I am 52 and never really forgiven my mother throwing my father, my sister and I under the bus to appease her god-awful mother and sisters. She's actually apologised to us about it (this very year as it happens) and I've told her I understand- and i DO understand how enmeshed she was with her birth family- bit I can't get over the literally decades of misery we were put through all in the name of appeasement.

Personally I think people who have said to meet somewhere else so they can choose to eat meat are missing the point. They were rude and immature (refuse to sit beside the hosts in their own home. Grow up).
I'm vegan and my ex husband and I raised our daughter vegan. You would have thought from some peoples reactions we were feeding her vodka.
Some people interrogate you and then complain that you are going on about it. FFS we can't just live with our values.
My husband eats meat but he is respectful. He doesn't cook meat in the house though we have had words about him not wiping surfaces after preparing ham sandwiches.
The problem isn't you being vegan. If it wasn't this they would find something else to stir about. I have had to go no contact with some family members and believe me it's worth it. You don't have to put up with horrible behaviour from people just because they are related through blood or marriage.
Think about dropping them as dropping a massive weight off your shoulders and your daughters. You are setting her a good example for her to set boundaries and not put up with spiteful, nasty behaviour.

I don't blame you at all for wanting to uninvite them, they are just plain rude.

However I would probably make one last attempt to tell them that they have no right to question the decisions of other people, they are ill informed, extremely ill-mannered and embarrassing.

If they are prepared to keep quiet about yours and your daughter's veganism, including not making rude noises and gestures, they are welcome.

See what they say and then make your final decision.

Most of us have difficult and embarrassing relatives but this is your mum and cutting her off would be a big step for anyone.

It happens more often than you'd think. I once had a colleague breathe in my face and announce that she'd just eaten veal. This was an adult professional woman.

When the majority of your kids have cut you off when why should that mother be given another chance? Just because she gave birth to you?

You reap what you sow with your kids and no, she doesn't deserve another chance just because she's the mother. With a bit of luck, the last son will see the light and leave her completely alone. Although from my experience, the youngest son tends to turn into his mother.

Tell them to piss off. I am a life long vegetarian (and great cook, even though I say so myself) and I'd be totally uninviting them, it's not like you became vegan to spite him.

OP, well done on managing really difficult family circumstances and being a good parent yourself. That's a tricky path to navigate, especially when you have a younger brother in thrall to your mother.
Now it's time to look after yourself and your own family.

"Don't worry, you won't be sitting anywhere near DD or me. We have decided, for the sake of a peace day, it would be better if you are not there. Have a lovely Christmas."

They sound like awful people. I would not have them in my house...

The fact that you are related to them does not mean you should have to see them if they can't show you and your family some respect.

Wow the cheek of your brother to firstly assume he is still invited to christmas dinner after that and secondly saying he doesn't want to sit near you or your daughter! He should just be grateful he is getting his dinner brought and cooked for him by someone else. I would definitely uninvite him for that, say you dont want to sit near me? Cool dont come at all, problem solved!

At the bottom of the garden 🤔

It's never from a place of concern. I think it's just something toxic people can latch on to and use to be nasty.
I've been vegan for years too. Most people just accept it - I don't preach, I don't try to make them eat vegan food, I just eat what I eat.
Some people though make a huge fuss about it. Who knows why. I just avoid them. They're not nice people.

I hope you went to HR. That is disgusting and indefensible behaviour.

DH has had friends take the piss, and once when we were invited to dinner (obviously the hostess knew he was veg) the wife set up a plate of raw veg in the kitchen away from the rest of us and said announced loudly in front of the assembled guests' If you are going to be a bloody vegetarian you can sit in the ktichen and eat your bloody carrots'. Unbelievable behaviour. It's funny how some people take being a vegetarian or vegan so personally, when it is literally not about them.