To say that most people in the UK want illegal immigration to stop

[Sleepysleepycoffeecoffee]

I recently commented on a Facebook post to say the majority of British people are against illegal immigration. I was asked by several other users what survey I based that opinion on. I responded with the question ‘do you think most people want illegal immigration to continue then? Because if not, then surely they want it to stop?’ I didn’t receive any responses to that.
Without getting into any political arguments or name calling and giving no ifs, buts or reasons for your view, please vote as follows.

YABU - I want illegal immigration to continue.
YANBU - I don’t want illegal immigration to continue.

Again, you have just reiterated what you said earlier.

“Statistically more likely” than who ?

A cohort of similarly aged local population males ?

Or the local population in general ?

You will know which, because you must know the basis of your claim, unless you’re just repeating something you’ve seen online.

Omg you are a peach. You disrespect old people and think they shouldn’t be allowed to stay in their family homes, You think we should all be forced to live in high rises and that farms are superfluous.

Something tells me you don’t value Britain for what it is now as you want to change it so fundamentally. Is this the right place for you?

One hopes that the trend for us all will be to gain assets with age. Peak wealth seems to occur around age 65-75, then start declining.

Pragmatically, pensioners vote and YP don’t. Political engagement on the part of the latter will be necessary to effect change.

a) Means test the subsidies and benefits they receive against their wealth.

b) Increase tax revenues by expanding the workforce - and by paying people fairly and properly for their time & skills, attracting more into work. At the expense of excess company profits / dividends / bonuses.

Both points being that we stop subsidising the wealthy at our expense.

Interesting. Where do you get your information from, if not ‘online’?

Here you go. Men from certain countries commit crime at significantly higher rates than the local men (yes, similar cohort). It makes sense when you look at the culture and trouble in those countries.

Crime stats

See this is where it gets a bit strange.

So you think it has to grow to make a pyramid scheme of humans. However not be sustainable enough to grow our own food. Currently in the U.K. we don’t have enough space to feed ourselves but we could probably do it if we ate less meat and put up stacks of greenhouses.

But we really are on the brink. Which brings us to other countries supplying our food. Europe has shown they are quite sensible. When food is short they aren’t sending it. There’s been plenty of previous times where the fruit veg aisle has been empty in recent years. And obviously there’s the issue of what happens when the breadbasket of Europe ends up being invaded by Russia.

Which brings us to Africa. Do we really think it’s ok for our future plans to be let’s just get Africa to grow our food. When they can’t feed themselves anyway and us pricing them out isn’t really fair. It’s currently 20% and I don’t think we want that percentage increasing when climate change is also around the corner.

So no we shouldn’t be building on farmland. Which leaves the biggest chunk at the top of the list PP left which is residential gardens.

I am sorry but no. I do not want to live in a country devoid of residential gardens for a Miriam of reasons. UK gardens are actually a keystone of our biodiversity and wildlife provision. Birds and bees rely on them to survive. Our native flora is very restricted and again not that geared up to tackle climate change.

Please point out precisely what is “disrespectful” about my comments regarding the elderly.

I am happy to break this taboo we have in the UK - this myth that pensioners are somehow holy cows, and their wealth and subsidisation of that wealth may not ever be questioned.

I am also happy to break the taboo that farmers are holy cows too, and should also be subsidised & given (eg tax) benefits no other business owner enjoys.

Both of these things entrench inequality and are effectively based on ordinary people subsidising their wealth at our own expense.

A) Fair
B) I mean if you could expand on it that'd be good

That’s illegibly low resolution, please try again.

Farmers feed us.

Definitely, we keep on being lectured about being carbon neutral by 2050 so surely it makes sense to preserve green spaces and not concrete over playing fields

food security is also important, I’d rather have farmers and pensioners than hundreds of uninvited people continuously coming to the UK and often not adding any value

My dps and mil aren’t and there still many of elderly alive in mid 80s-90s

I mean how dare they exist creating inequality

My post I’ve quoted here was for @OmNomShiva

BTW I am fine with means testing pensioner benefits. I am on record on MN that pensioners paying higher rate tax should pay NI. But I don’t begrudge pensioners their assets, and I don’t believe the state can renege on a contributory benefit like state pension without breaking the social compact.

The triple lock is too much, though I would prefer our state pension was comparable to others in the G7 before we dropped it

Sure. To reiterate, B is:

Increase tax revenues by expanding the workforce - and by paying people fairly and properly for their time & skills, attracting more into work. At the expense of excess company profits / dividends / bonuses.

We need more people in work, paying tax.

People will not enter the workforce if they are not paid enough to live a decent quality of life.

Most benefits paid to people of working age actually top up their wages because their employers do not pay enough to live a decent life.

This means that those receiving wage top ups from the government are having their wages subsidised in order that their employer can run better margins and make more profit.

That profit is used to pay dividends and returns to wealthy shareholders, it is used to pay huge bonuses to the CEO.

This means that taxpayers are subsidising the wealthy beneficiaries of those dividends and bonuses. That is blatantly unfair and wrong.

We need more people in the workforce which means creating jobs. But we’re cutting them, by replacing humans with machines. We’re underpaying humans as I said above. All to improve profit margins of the employer, with the taxpayer picking up the bill.

And this goes on to the farmers part of this.

Farmers don’t “feed us”.

They make the raw materials that the next layers in the supply chain valorise further, until it ends up in the shops. If they struggle to make it pay, the answer is because the downstream supply chain is underpaying them for their raw materials. Ultimately this ends up in supermarket profits - which are measured in billions.

If we subsidise the underpaying of farmers by giving them a set of subsidies & special tax allowances, the taxpayer is effectively subsidising those billions in supermarket profits.

How is that right or fair to the average person ?

Once again it means we’re subsidising investor dividends / returns and CEO bonuses through taxation - that’s absolutely outrageous.

All businesses should pay the same taxes, all business owners should pay the same taxes.

Businesses - including farms - at every stage of the supply chain should charge what they need to generate enough income from their produce / added value to survive and grow.

Tax revenue should NOT subsidise any of those businesses multi-billion profits.

This isn’t communism, it isn’t even socialism - it’s taking the manipulation of markets in favour of the wealthy out of the equation, making the system fair for all.

If farmers were protesting and campaigning for that, I would support them. If they campaign for a more beneficial tax regime than I have as a (non-farming) small business owner - sorry, I’m not on board.

farms are not “green spaces” in the sense of environmental protection, biodiversity, and they are not natural landscapes.

They promote monoculture, soil degradation, destroy biodiversity, leech pollutants into rivers killing aquatic habitats, and are absolutely not “good” for the environment in the way they exist today.

And....... create the food we eat. Fixed it for you.

Yes fair enough with some of them but they still provide food

@OmNomShiva you say above (at 14.53) that most benefits are paid to working people to top up their wages, so their employers can pay them less.

Which benefits are you referring to? Only about 37% of those on UC and 17% of those on PIP are in work. According to OBR

If you are referring to Child Benefit, free nursery hours, tax breaks on ISA contributions and the like, are you suggesting that when people are paid fair wages these benefits should vanish?

You go on and on about supermarkets and their profits. If you actually look at the data post tax, the profit margins for supermarkets and retail is incredibly tiny.

My pension is invested in shares. We also have a diversified investment portfolio, I hope it does well!

The standout star of this thread has got to be massive anti-British racist OmNomShiva, who blames all the UK's problems on elderly white people, farmers, supermarkets and the fucking countryside!! While all immigrants on the other hand are of course ever-young, keen, hardworking, peaceful assets who can be stacked on top of each other in high density housing once they've been lured off their benefits by a generous wage before popping off back to be persecuted in their countries of origin prior to being a burden to anyone 🤣

No you didn’t. Please read my longer post above. They create raw materials.

Your assumption that farmers “feed us” is like saying oilworkers heat us and drive us around.

Did we ever find out how old that poster was?

I’ll guess:
Male
Early thirties and part of that group that used to post on here that were always waiting for a massive house crash so they could pick up a four bed detached for a couple of grand.
Terrible relationship with parents which is why they are keen to eradicate the elderly and free up that housing stock.

Talk about misrepresenting my contribution with your dismissive and frankly pointless post.

You’d much prefer it to be simply a case of “immigrant bad” wouldn’t you.

It's just ALL your opinions, ideas and values that are bad, don't give a shit where you come from