Need people's views on what just happened in my home

[Spiderwoman123]

6 year old ASD son. He is currently in process of EHCP application. He struggles socially, has no friends, has weird things about food

H has always said im too soft. Letting him have pudding when hes only eaten cucumber. That kind of thing. H gets v frustrated at DS not eating as H is the house chef really. H always been pretty resistant to adapting parenting but accepts diagnosis and is kind and loving but can also be v inflexible and quick to anger.H much prefers younger DS (none of same challenges). H can get pretty grumpy

Right. So dinner time. DS refusing to eat chicken as he says different to normal stuff. H getting wound up. Me trying to reduce tension. DS says "stop looking at me" as H staring at him. H looks mad. DS getting mad too. Tension rising and both sniping at each other. DS goes to slap H. Its pretty half hearted. DS used to hit a lot when meltdown and we have worked on it a lot together but it still happens. DS barely touches H. H says this is because he moved out the way.

H in response raises his hand to hit DS. I think. Stops himself and then picks up DS chair off the ground and tips it over so that DS falls onto hard kitchen floor. Not from some great height but he definitely picked up the chair and tipped it fully so DS (who was curled up on chair crying) onto floor. Pur kitchen has a fake concrete floor thing

DS bawling. H saying he didn't mean to but he wanted DS to leave room. H saying im overreacting and started blaming me for my shitty parenting!

Currently putting two v upset boys to bed. I think it's fucking horrendous. H thinks DS went to hit him and H was just getting him to leave the room

Pls tell me what to do

OP I really advise you to call Samaritans. It’s not just for suicidal people. Tell them what you’re going through and get it all out to an impartial non judgmental person. You can say just about anything to them and they’ll just listen. Cry it out. You’ll feel clearer headed trust me.

Quoting myself here as that post has really irked me

That whole post is so emotional because you feel guilty.

i'm not sure what some of you feel hellbent on mkaing out i'm unsafe or that somehow yesterday was my fault

Prior to this I think I've posted twice and both times I was questioning if your husband was ND and if maybe he was struggling. I've not once said anything negative about your parenting

If me saying social services will ask you why you didn't protect your child.... has led to such a huge irrational emotional post ( with lies added into it for emotional effect ) then I do unfortunetly worry for your DS. One parent who is physically abusive and one parent who starts making things up when they get emotional

It sounds like your H came home acting all cock-a-hoop, @Spiderwoman123 . I don't think he went to the gym. I think he's bricking it. He was probably hiding somewhere, keeping an eye on the house to see if social care turned up. Just give him a withering look and tell him not to even try this bullshit. He's pathetic. He should not be turning up to spend time with you or your children. He's an abuser and needs to be kept away, not given more opportunity to abuse and subvert the narrative.

You said social services won't just look at my H but ask why I didnt keep my son safe? I am keeping him safe. How csn you say you didnt say anything negative at my parenting while also saying ive failed to keep my son safe?

Yes I do feel guilt. Guilt that this is my life. Im trying to sort it out. You question whether my husband is "struggling". We are all struggling. Most of all my son.

Im sorry I've irked you. Thanks. No need to reply think probs nothinh good comes from our interactions here.

🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ Your making things up again I havnt said once you failed to keep your son safe. Everything I've wrote is in black and white,

Your right I won't be replying to you again as twice you've outright lied about what I've said for dramatic effect

The other posters here are right - you have opened the door to Social Services. They don't know you, and they won't take your viewpoint at face value, why should they?, they have a job to do, and not an easy one.

They will scrutinise both you and your DH in depth, and once involved they will stay involved until they can be sure that there is no longer a risk to your children.

The remit they have is not to help you or your DH, but rather to safeguard the interests of the child, and that can range from supportive actions to taking a child into care, and it's at their discretion, they will be in the driving seat.

It's a fact that you'll be looked at in terms of whether you kept your son safe, I'm not sure why you're having a go at that poster, when you were thanking people who gave knowledgeable, albeit scary, advice/experience. You're taking steps to keep your children safe, so focus on that.

But she did fall to keep her son safe!

She failed to keep her son safe because her son's father behaved like a child.

It isn't her fault, but allowing him to continue down this path probably would be.

Thoughts are with you OP, you are going through a tough time.

https://blog.jkp.com/2018/01/eat-peas-wont-get-ice-cream-five-reasons-withholding-dessert-will-backfire/
The advice from experts is not to withhold dessert. It doesn’t work and can cause food issues. If others are served dessert then everyone should be. Or give everyone fruit instead.

I'm sorry, OP, but no, you're not keeping your son safe. He isn't safe. You watched him being thrown to the ground by an adult, and your response was to think, I hope he tells someone at school. You were there. He told YOU. That should have been enough for you to take action.

You've been complicit in your husband's abuse of your son - "trying to keep it together" while your son is left to fend for himself.

Your husband is a grown man who threw his six-year-old onto a concrete floor over a chicken nugget. You need to step up and start protecting your kids.

I'm sure that's hard to hear - I've no doubt you love your children. But you need to find your courage now.

She has taken action: she has emailed the school, phoned a charity, and arranged a meeting. Stop bullying a mum who is doing exactly what she should be doing. Did you even read the thread?

OP, you are being very brave, please ignore some of the hectoring responses on here. It’s great that you have told the school. So many of us are rooting for you and your kids x

I'm not bullying her. I read the whole thread and until this last update, there was no indication that she was doing anything at all other than hoping her son would tell a teacher, worrying that she'd upset her husband, and speaking to a charity who advised her to focus on her husband and had nothing to say about the abuse of her child.

I'm glad if she is taking appropriate steps now. Those kids need protecting.

Actually I meant everyone, e.g. other kids at school. Just something that he may now be old enough to understand.

You seem to have changed your tune since you posted the following which Mumsnet deleted:

'What would be wrong with your DH giving DS a good firm but fair smack if he is naughty? presuming it's legal in your part of the country it is quite effective.'

You are trying to scare the OP by telling her that she has opened the door to Social Service who could take her child into care. OP is a capable and patient parent to her neurodivergent son and has learned everything she can to help her parent effectively, including taking classes. Her DH is too arrogant to think he has anything to learn about parenting a child with autism and he has now used physical abuse against DS1 with zero remorse or self-reflection.

People who batter their children often are quite scared of Social Services tbh…as they should be.

I am not saying stay by any means but it will then mean H parenting your DC alone.

To be clear, I don't disapprove of corporal punishment so long as it is moderate and as the law in a certain jurisdiction dictates - or other forms of punishment (ie withdrawal of an item, say access to a device). I also previously stated that in this case the DH's approach was not appropriate.

In my reply to the OP I am simply pointing out, that involving an outside agency, be that the school / social services etc. that they will have a duty of care to her children and it will be entirely at their discretion how they proceed, that is a fact.

It seems the OP has trouble in maintaining good discipline, as much trouble as her DH has - it seems they are both failing in different ways. Meanwhile the DS has to grow up and live in a world where he has to follow rules, do as he is told etc. regardless of MH diagnosis - so he is not currently being well served.

1. there is no moderate corporal punishment, just as there is no moderate domestic violence and no moderate animal abuse. It is wrong.

2. OP doesn’t seem to have any trouble maintaining “good discipline” at all when her husband is absent, in fact she seems very practised at managing dysregulated behaviour and diffusing situations.

3. the child is autistic, and will be autistic all of his life, so he is going to “live in the world” differently from his neurotypical peers whether his parents brutalise him or not. If OP continues to follow her instincts and meet his needs -away from his vindictive manchild of a father - he’ll have the opportunity to build a happy and successful life, whatever that looks like for him.

It’s because your son has already come to harm, and you couldn’t prevent that, but clearly would have done if you could. They don’t think it’s your fault. You have done your best after the harm has been done, but they see an ongoing threat and don’t think you could stop your H harming your child again, if you stay with him. Not because they blame you, but because this is a stronger adult man and you couldn’t stop him before in that moment where he harmed your son (I'm also not sure how you could have).

They are worried staying afterwards might look like condoning what happened and leaves your son at risk. You obviously don’t condone this and I think you seem like a very loving and involved mum, but imagine it from an outsider’s perspective. Your H doesn’t listen to you, has shown no signs of remorse and he’s not someone they know, so this is just a man who harms his child, and you have written very movingly about the emotional impact on your little boy. They are deeply concerned for your children and just want you to fix it for them, and be safe. They are trying to scare you into action, and it probably comes from a good place, even though it is making you feel judged and unsupported.

It's also not their lives. It’s so easy to see a solution when it’s words on a screen from a stranger and you aren’t getting contradictory views from lots of people, all while trying not to make the wrong life altering decision you can’t take back, yet knowing whatever you do/don’t do your life might never be the same after this point.

It’s a lot to take in and process, but also if your H is abusive things often get a lot worse when you try to leave and it might not stop him seeing your children. There is nothing wrong with reaching out for expert advice and taking your time to process this, so if you do leave, it’s in the safest way. That said, it also might not hurt to have a plan to avoid your children coming to further harm while this is going on. Could they stay with a friend or relative for a little while, so you have time to think things over but know nothing else harmful will happen? What if a relative came to visit, would he react the same in front of them?

The law in England clearly defines what is reasonable, the wording is: "a temporary reddening of the skin" & "transient and trifling" - if you don't like it campaign to have it changed by all means, but that's the law of the land.

I agree, the lad will be autistic his whole life, which is tough, but that doesn't mean he won't have to cope in the world, live in the world, be part of the world, do what he is told, adapt to change etc.. to that end he needs to learn to live with his condition and succeed in spite of it.

To be clear, I don't disapprove of corporal punishment so long as it is moderate and as the law in a certain jurisdiction dictates

What the actual fuck….. what certain jurisdiction???!!!!!!

I'm quite speechless.

The law varies across the UK, Corporal Punishment is legal in England and NI, illegal in Wales and Scotland.

That's the law, that's the way it is, and that's your legal jurisdictions.

And to be clear, where it's legal that's a smack, not pushing a kid of his chair onto a hard floor (although a lot depends on the consequences of the action as the law defines by injuries sustained, they must be no more than "transient and trifling", the example given being "temporary reddening of the skin")

This. I have close family members who have neurodivergence I see how hard their parents are trying and how they have reached breaking point many times over. But it’s whether your husband reflects and recognises his behaviour is not ok and takes steps to address this.

For information, from the review of Section 58 of the Children's Act

"The law is clear. But there appears to be a lack of understanding about precisely what the law allows and does not allow. The law does not permit anyone deliberately or recklessly to cause injury to a child which is more than transient and trifling. It is important that parents understand the law so that they can bring up their children in the most effective way they see, and not live in unreasonable fear of being subject to criminal investigation. It is important too that practitioners, particularly social workers, understand the law and are honest with parents about its effect, while giving whatever advice and recommendations they think best to help parents bring up their children effectively"