Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY! - Thread 2

[CohensDiamondTeeth]

I hope no one minds me starting thread 2, I clicked post on my last reply but the thread had filled up.

There was some interesting discussion had, and on the last page @LostMySocks posted that she was thinking of sending a positive email to HQ, which I think sounds like a great idea. Maybe those who support this move could do the same? It would show Girl Guides that people are paying attention.

Link to the first thread here: Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY! | Mumsnet

The first post of the thread was so good I'm just going to copy and paste it here too. Girl Guides statement is incredibly begrudging in tone.

@Iamwhoiamwhoareyou · Yesterday 14:41

Following April's supreme court ruling, the Girl Guides have FINALLY made a statement and will remain GIRLS ONLY - Finally closing the door on admitting trans members or allowing BOYS to invade female only spaces/camp (which, would be done without informing parents that their daughter would be sharing a room with a biological male!) - I have a previous post in feminism chat for anyone wanting to read the previous thread on this

EMAIL RECEIVED HOT OFF THE PRESS 5 MIN AGO -

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.
Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement. Details below.

Contact [email protected] or 020 7532 3970
All calls/emails will be confidential, and the service will be open 24hrs, 7 days a week.
Find out more, including how this team will handle personal data.

Denise Wilson (Chair of Trustees), Felicity Oswald (CEO) and Tracy Foster (Chief Guide)

That flag tells you everything about how little anyone signing it cares about the needs and welfare of girls

Boys, tho, @MrsOvertonsWindow

We must never say ‘no’ to the boys.

I wonder whether the posters who believe that the word ‘girl’ and ‘woman’ can be used to include the very opposite meaning than the original and established intention, understand that ‘female’ has also been rendered meaningless as well.

Upton, McKinnon/Ivy, and many notable other male people have been very up front that they are ‘female’ because they want to be described by that word.

Even if the posters on this thread have their personal limits to which words they will and will not agree to being rendered meaningless because that word now means the opposite to what was the original meaning, all the words that were uniquely for female people as a sex class and a political segment have already been misused.

It must take some very determined siloing of thought to not understand the ramifications of this. It is anti-feminist. Allowing the words for the needs to female people to be misused in this way is an act of misogyny.

I do yes. And I understand the petition is unlikely to do anything. But it still important for people to put a voice to signify unhappiness that some people feel as society becomes less and less tolerant of the other.

This is the most shocking thing of all.

Before all this nonsense, I knew misogyny existed in the world.

However, it wasn't until I saw all these people falling over themselves to put male needs/demands before women's actual rights and safety that I understood how horrifically prevalent it is.

Anyone who has supported this to the detriment of women/girls should be heartily ashamed.

Didn’t take long for the homophobes to rear their head did it 🙄

Did everyone notice that it is not the GG flag that is used as the thumbnail? That says all that needs to be said.

The transphobia in this thread makes me feel absolutely sick. I don't know how you sleep at night being this comfortable attacking young trans girls. Cis MEN are still allowed to be in the space with young girls, yet everyone is concerned about young girls trying to find a safe space to be themselves? I think we've all lost the plot when we start attacking eachother instead of understanding the real issue here, which is misogyny.

What do you think is 'intolerant' about the fact that humans can't change sex and that single sex groups should not (by law) admit any opposite sex members?

You seem horrifically confused.

Men cannot become women. Boys cannot become girls. Misogyny is indeed a terrible problem, but it is a problem for the females of the species, not the men.

Organisations have been far too tolerant for far too long.
It was never legal, in the first place. FWS have accomplished so much.

GG’s craven public statement shows the contempt they still have for girls.
They’re still prostrating themselves on the pink and blue altar.

We all sleep like babies.

Nah, bruv.

That’s a laughable insult, quite frankly.

I didn’t even notice that, Helle.

Great spot!

No one is attacking anyone.

We are simply pointing out that trans girls are BOYS and therefore have no place in single sex spaces for girls.

Sympathy has actually been shown for the boys mixed up in this. They have been lied to by adults who ought to know better.

There is nothing wrong with boys liking stereotypically girl things, but they are not and can never BE girls. Spaces for girls free from all boys including trans girls is important for girls for lots of reasons that have been discussed upthread.

These boys will be welcomed into the scouting organisation which is mixed sex.

I sleep like a baby hoping that girls are better protected in the future from boys and young men who pretend to be girls.

For the record:
Men and Boys who attend Girl Guides are kept away from the girls and their toileting, changing or sleeping arrangements.

Men and boys who attend Girl Guides who pretend they are Women and Girls are not, they are allowed to pretend to be Women and Girls for all purposes. Including sharing sleeping arrangements.

That is the issue. It really is not difficult to understand.

It is also where the Sturdy Pyjamas suggestion originally came from, on this very forum. Why should girls have to wear 'sturdy pyjamas' to protect themselves from boys who are pretending to be girls in the first place?

“The transphobia in this thread makes me feel absolutely sick. I don't know how you sleep at night being this comfortable attacking young trans girls. Cis MEN are still allowed to be in the space with young girls, yet everyone is concerned about young girls trying to find a safe space to be themselves? I think we've all lost the plot when we start attacking eachother instead of understanding the real issue here, which is misogyny.”

So says another poster who doesn’t understand the GG safeguarding failures around those previous included male children.

And that post is quite the study in hypocrisy considering it in itself is an ‘attack’ on people striving to understand the issue.

But it is right in that the inclusion of male children and any non DBS checked male that is not adequately chaperoned is indeed ‘misogyny”. I don’t think the poster understood quite how they support that misogyny though with the wording of the post.

there’s no such thing as cis and no such thing as trans children. And it’s an insomnia free zone on the right side of history and child safeguarding.

No one is attacking young trans girls, but are supporting girls.

You could argue the reverse, that by allowing boys into girl organisations, you are attacking girls.

Genuinely - when you (general "you") refuse to explain what you even mean by "women" in this sentence, do you think that is helping understanding, or hindering it?

I asked solidmam this and the response was "i think I've answered this on other threads "

Anyone (not specifically this poster) calling for understanding yet ignoring, insulting and waving away people asking what you mean is hypocritical behaviour. You don't want understanding; you want unquestioning obedience.

It can't be a surprise that educated liberal women take issue with that, can it?

Why? Why should women petition to allow men and boys back into a fender dingie sex group? How does this benefit girls? Those boys could join scouts. Leave girls their single sex group.

This is the thing.

Any male adults that come to help are chaperoned, or should be if safeguarding is strong. There are limitations to what they can do there.

This could not happen if that male person said they were female.

The ‘sturdy pajama’ quote was from a female person who describes herself as a man who has been instrumental in the dismantling of UK policy protecting women. Whittle also told the world that as a GG teen on camp, would have sex with the scouts during the night. Whittle said that of course male people can sleep in the same accommodation as female people, the sturdy pajamas is all the protection needed (my paraphrasing).

I would describe those admissions as coming from a female person with no personal boundaries around sexual activity and someone who should never be considered an expert on safeguarding.

That is absolutely horrifying

Yes. We are concerned about young girls having a safe space to be themselves. That’s why boys are excluded. You’re right and I’m glad you’re with us in this. You’re right. Boys should leave girls to grow without butting in and using gendered, outdated stereotypes (or babies waving) to justify invading those groups.

Whittle suggested the ‘sturdy pyjamas’??

I don’t know where to start with it.

I should be shocked, but, I couldn’t really have a lower opinion of her already.