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AIBU?

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To think there is a definite surge in annoyance towards the disabled?

1000 replies

WarySwan · 03/12/2025 06:32

I have seen it in real life. Not just social media forums and news outlets where every other post seems to be about 'free money this for disabled' and 'free cars'.

My 2 children have autism. They get highest rate DLA. About £800 a month. We get respite care funded that costs the tax payer about £700 a month.

Just had an extension on our new build house, housing association, brand new bedroom and ensuite installed. Free of charge through the council.

Motability 7 seater car. 25 plate.

People seem to just see this and see the money. They do not see the costs that are present because of disability. The amount of time and resources it takes to keep 2 profoundly children at home.

They do not see that my children will need 24/7 care for life. 2-1 support in public. The constant cleaning and caring. Waking up at the crack of dawn, years on end. Cleaning smearing and endless washing. Endless marks on your body from a child who doesn't get that taking a chunk out of you will hurt that much and scar

Watching your eldest almost die as he can't speak a word or use a communication device. Meaning appendicitis went undetected until he was almost dying. The constant battle of keeping a cannula in his arm with hospital staff just not getting why a play therapist does not bloody cut it and he needs constant supervision that I cannot possibly do 24/7 without moving from the bedside. The weeks spend in recovery because of this.

If we do not or cannot provide this care, residential placements are about £40,000+ per month. Yes. Per month. It is eye watering in cost. That won't change anytime soon because social care is beyond shot to bits.

My children deserve the best life possible. And a dignified society should surely want to ensure this happens? Children who are not disabled and their parents have options. They have chances and doorways. Mine will never work. Never have a marriage or children, they won't even be able to cook a basic meal.

There is no overtime or upskilling for me. No situation where they fly the nest and I can focus on my career again. Unless they become some dangerous through no fault of their own that a 40k plus a month placement goes ahead as the alternative means I could die or be seriously injured, and that would mean they'd be at risk if I am literally unconscious on the floor.

They still deserve dignity and compassion. The chance of a good life. They are very happy currently. Good routines that are followed to a T. Safe at home because I have the resources to do it.

Care placement does not save money. Unfortunately. It would cost over ten times what I get in benefits.

I have seen so many mentions of people saying those on benefits should have no savings at all. Nothing. Really? You think my life isn't hard enough? You think I shouldn't be allowed a small nest of savings too?

When I finally drop down from caring, I will have next to no pension. After spending a lifetime ensuring the state doesn't have to take full responsibility for 2 adult men that will mean at least 4 paid members of staff are present at all times.

I am not just talking about MN. It is everywhere. Even 'funny' reels on Instagram targeted about how the disabled get this and that. How they should all drive a basic tiny car that has something written in bold to make sure everyone knows its a free car, as if they're really disabled, they'll use. That'll stop the chancers eh!

This is NOT about criticism towards PIP and DLA for things people deem questionable... even though they almost certainly dont have all the facts. This is about the blatant and not hidden disgust and begrudge of help to those with lifelong and profound disability

PEOPLE keep saying in black and white, no room for confusion in their words, that the disabled get too much. That it isn't fair.

I suppose this thread will get deleted. But a lot of views seem to be going unchallenged about the disabled that wouldn't be allowed if it was about something else that's suppose to be a protected characteristic. Seems to have quite a few comparisons with a certain country in Europe 80 or so years ago. When the hatred and deceit was being thrown around and brain washing people before not many years later, the public became okay with euthanasia of them.

Hell, I am sure we are already there for some. As I have seen with my own eyes, people commenting on MN and the likes of social media where their bloody name and pictures of themselves and their work can be traced, that euthanasia could be an option, ideally.

OP posts:
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kornwall · 03/12/2025 17:26

SleeplessInWherever · 03/12/2025 17:22

I think what they’re really asking us to do is debate the philosophical and ethical implications of assigning quality of life thresholds to people with disabilities, and if society would arrive at doing so because of the “burden” of them.

Which firstly, no sensible human should be doing, and secondly, no parent of a disabled child would.

Barking up entirely the wrong tree.

Best get rid of all philosophy departments in that case, don't want anyone thinking about unpalatable things, much better to just ignore the worst of humanities impulses and hope they go away.

Ncforthiscms · 03/12/2025 17:28

Pricelessadvice · 03/12/2025 07:00

Equally a family friends 18 year old daughter is autistic, yet high functioning. She has a mobility car, brand new.
Yet she very happily takes the train and bus with friends to go on regular trips away and she is still living at home with her wealthy parents, who could absolutely afford to buy her a car.
That’s what people get annoyed at.

This shouldn't be happening.
You have to score 12 points for high rate mobility which isn't easy. But if the claimant cannot to/from a familiar place without help they score 12. I think this sadly is being used by a lot of asd teens even if they are able..because how do you disprove it apart from photography & reporting people after pip is in place.
Report it

TigerRag · 03/12/2025 17:29

x2boys · 03/12/2025 17:24

You said this on another thread and it was explained to you thst nobody is getting a mobility car for a tennis elbow
When filling out forms you have to list all the persons conditions, do for example my son has chronic constipation and he has a mobility car
Obviously he doesn't get the mobility car for the chronic. Constipation, he gets it for severe mental impairment caused by his complex disabilities, but if the Daily mail decided to write a rage inducing article they could quite rightly claim that someone with chronic constipation is in receipt of a mobility car whilst conveniently missing out the actual reason for eligibility.

You've just replied to a troll who has a real hatred towards disabled people

SleeplessInWherever · 03/12/2025 17:29

kornwall · 03/12/2025 17:26

Best get rid of all philosophy departments in that case, don't want anyone thinking about unpalatable things, much better to just ignore the worst of humanities impulses and hope they go away.

Oh I don’t need the condescension, I’ve sat in enough TPE lectures to know my way around this conversation.

You’re just having it with the wrong people. Joining an already emotive thread to ask parents and caregivers of disabled children to discuss whether their quality of life should lead to their state sanctioned death is a weird choice.

Hammering it home so repeatedly is even weirder. Pointed, or intentional, some might say.

Avantiagain · 03/12/2025 17:30

'Best get rid of all philosophy departments in that case, don't want anyone thinking about unpalatable things, much better to just ignore the worst of humanities impulses and hope they go away."

This forum isn't the place for that discussion.

TempestTost · 03/12/2025 17:32

StartingFreshFor2026 · 03/12/2025 17:11

Are you actually saying you don't even 'struggle' with the idea of murdering a 9 year old child who is not ill or in pain because they are a 'burden'??

I mean, fucking hell guys, one of them has actually come out and said it.

Actually, I don't believe any of those kinds of practices are ok, I am fairly hard line about it compared to most people in the UK today.

But if you think society as a whole would struggle, I really wonder what your basis for that is.

Do you believe that somehow human beings have a block about thinking that way? Clearly not - lots of people have thought and behaved that way.

Will society protect us - clearly not - lots of societies have allowed and even encouraged those kinds of practices.

Many people now believe that if people are suffering, it is wrong to ask them to live. They should be allowed to be killed.

Many people already believe that if a child would suffer with even something like Down's syndrome, they are better off being killed before they have to suffer.

Many people already believe that if a child will be a serious financial or other burden on a family, it is the family who should decide if they want to take on that burden.

The laws increasingly in western countries, including the UK, are reflecting these kinds of beliefs about the value of life. In Canada, where they now have MAID being recommended to disabled adults, a panel of doctors recommended that it be extended to infants, on compassionate grounds.

The reason I think that people would not find it hard is because they don't find it hard now. I think you have been fooled into complacency because you imagine that it could never happen.

StartingFreshFor2026 · 03/12/2025 17:32

kornwall · 03/12/2025 17:26

Best get rid of all philosophy departments in that case, don't want anyone thinking about unpalatable things, much better to just ignore the worst of humanities impulses and hope they go away.

Do you really think this thread was the place for this philosophical argument or to be posing these questions and acting like they're just innocent questions?

kornwall · 03/12/2025 17:34

SleeplessInWherever · 03/12/2025 17:29

Oh I don’t need the condescension, I’ve sat in enough TPE lectures to know my way around this conversation.

You’re just having it with the wrong people. Joining an already emotive thread to ask parents and caregivers of disabled children to discuss whether their quality of life should lead to their state sanctioned death is a weird choice.

Hammering it home so repeatedly is even weirder. Pointed, or intentional, some might say.

Fair enough, but threads do get derailed all the time, by all means make the 'not the time and place argument' and that may well be the case for this thread. However if someone chooses to engage in a debate or argument with a poster then they can't be annoyed if they get pulled up on things or challenged on their views.

OrangeCatKitten · 03/12/2025 17:35

World is turning more and more brutal due to lack of funds, really sad

kornwall · 03/12/2025 17:35

StartingFreshFor2026 · 03/12/2025 17:32

Do you really think this thread was the place for this philosophical argument or to be posing these questions and acting like they're just innocent questions?

That wasn't the point you were making. If you don't want to discuss the points raised then don't engage in the discussion.

Legobricksinatub · 03/12/2025 17:36

Shakeoffyourchains · 03/12/2025 17:23

If one side is pushing for a fairer society for everyone and calling out the people who actually hold power and influence, and the other side is pushing for more inequality and blaming minority or marginalised groups for society’s problems, then yeah, one side is clearly better than the other.

Calling male offenders women and refusing to platform women’s rights speakers, constant stories about drag queens, purposefully misrepresenting Trump’s speech on the eve of his election, making hundreds of reports about Palestine that they needed to corrected because it was Hamas propaganda, calling young girls repeatedly raped by grooming gangs ‘prostitutes’, calling the kidnap of hundreds of Christian girls in Nigeria by Islamists a ‘gun-battle’…. I presume you mean the right wing press are the good guys.

bookworm14 · 03/12/2025 17:36

Just love to come onto Mumsnet of an evening and discover a ‘philosophical debate’ on whether people like my profoundly disabled sibling are worthy of life. I knew this place had gone downhill, but fucking hell.

TempestTost · 03/12/2025 17:37

StartingFreshFor2026 · 03/12/2025 17:21

It's in the quote! 'The parents will get to decide what counts as too much of a burden, or not enough quality of life.
What is it that makes you think people would struggle with this?'

*Oh hang on, you think 'What is it that makes you think people would struggle with this?' is just an innocent question, posed for I don't even know what reasons. I should ask 'what is it that makes you think anyone would NOT struggle with this?'

Edited

You edited that in quite a manipulative way, maybe you are not naive so much as I thought.

Grammarnut · 03/12/2025 17:38

My heartfelt good wishes to you and your DS. Thank you for caring for them so well.

That said, we have the Assisted Dying Bill going through the Lords. A Bill all disabled charities and groups have said endangers disabled people. With any luck the Lords will chuck it on the discard heap - which they are entirely entitled to do with a private member's bill not in the government manisfesto when it is not well-drafted etc - and there to do with Bills which are not fit for purpose, as the AD Bill is not. Thank the Lord for unelected MPs (i.e. Lords).

StartingFreshFor2026 · 03/12/2025 17:39

TempestTost · 03/12/2025 17:32

Actually, I don't believe any of those kinds of practices are ok, I am fairly hard line about it compared to most people in the UK today.

But if you think society as a whole would struggle, I really wonder what your basis for that is.

Do you believe that somehow human beings have a block about thinking that way? Clearly not - lots of people have thought and behaved that way.

Will society protect us - clearly not - lots of societies have allowed and even encouraged those kinds of practices.

Many people now believe that if people are suffering, it is wrong to ask them to live. They should be allowed to be killed.

Many people already believe that if a child would suffer with even something like Down's syndrome, they are better off being killed before they have to suffer.

Many people already believe that if a child will be a serious financial or other burden on a family, it is the family who should decide if they want to take on that burden.

The laws increasingly in western countries, including the UK, are reflecting these kinds of beliefs about the value of life. In Canada, where they now have MAID being recommended to disabled adults, a panel of doctors recommended that it be extended to infants, on compassionate grounds.

The reason I think that people would not find it hard is because they don't find it hard now. I think you have been fooled into complacency because you imagine that it could never happen.

I really hope that nearly everyone would struggle with this question even being asked.

I have children very similar to the OP's in terms of needs but they're not ill, not in pain, have good lives most of the time. The thought that some people think they'd be better off dead and that is an OK thing to even pose on this thread is terrifying and one of the most horrible things I've ever heard. The original post is not even about the value of eugenics, it's about cash benefits, the fact it has descended into questions or philosophical arguments about eugenics is obscene.

Itiswhysofew · 03/12/2025 17:39

For what it's worth, OP, I support you and everyone in the same circumstances as you or similar, as do many people I know. I cannot even imagine your life with your boys. Everyone deserves to live a dignified life. Vulnerable people and their families must be taken care of.

All the very best to you and your family.

StartingFreshFor2026 · 03/12/2025 17:41

TempestTost · 03/12/2025 17:37

You edited that in quite a manipulative way, maybe you are not naive so much as I thought.

I read it too quickly because it's the first time I've ever been actively upset by something on MN. I can't even believe that question is being asked on a thread about disability benefits tbh.

TempestTost · 03/12/2025 17:45

SleeplessInWherever · 03/12/2025 17:22

I think what they’re really asking us to do is debate the philosophical and ethical implications of assigning quality of life thresholds to people with disabilities, and if society would arrive at doing so because of the “burden” of them.

Which firstly, no sensible human should be doing, and secondly, no parent of a disabled child would.

Barking up entirely the wrong tree.

And here is my question again. Why do you think no parent of a disabled child would?

They have, many times.

And in other cases, society has made sure it happens anyway.

It's very weird that on the one hand you seem to want to accuse people, willy nilly, of being monstrous, going so far as to add deliberately misrepresent them, while at the same time you are so confident that society could never think that way, that it could never be arrived at as a kind of logical worldview. Despite ample evidence of that in history.

It's very strange.

StartingFreshFor2026 · 03/12/2025 17:48

bookworm14 · 03/12/2025 17:36

Just love to come onto Mumsnet of an evening and discover a ‘philosophical debate’ on whether people like my profoundly disabled sibling are worthy of life. I knew this place had gone downhill, but fucking hell.

It's ok though, because they're just posing the questions.

SleeplessInWherever · 03/12/2025 17:50

TempestTost · 03/12/2025 17:45

And here is my question again. Why do you think no parent of a disabled child would?

They have, many times.

And in other cases, society has made sure it happens anyway.

It's very weird that on the one hand you seem to want to accuse people, willy nilly, of being monstrous, going so far as to add deliberately misrepresent them, while at the same time you are so confident that society could never think that way, that it could never be arrived at as a kind of logical worldview. Despite ample evidence of that in history.

It's very strange.

My ethical opinion is that no parent of a disabled child, who is able to see the quality of their life beyond the “burden” they present, would or should advocate for euthanising them.

Are you really so into philosophy that you need to question caregivers of disabled children this passionately about why society shouldn’t be discussing killing their kids?

They shouldn’t be discussing it because it’s disgusting, and anybody who is discussing it as a serious potential outcome of the financial (or in fact lifestyle) cost of being disabled, needs to frankly do better.

ruethewhirl · 03/12/2025 17:52

StartingFreshFor2026 · 03/12/2025 17:41

I read it too quickly because it's the first time I've ever been actively upset by something on MN. I can't even believe that question is being asked on a thread about disability benefits tbh.

I agree. This thread, and what is being allowed to stand on it, are going way too far imho.

CopeNorth · 03/12/2025 17:53

I’m sorry OP. That sounds incredibly tough. Yes I do feel like we’re sliding into a country of no community where people only care about themselves, who think - I work hard for my money, why should I pay for anyone else. Some people who seam to be fuelled by the Daily Mail and general hate might tolerate the right kind of disabled person. But anyone getting any help has to be really worthy and really grateful. It’s disgusting. Especially the rejoicing over disability car changes which was bizarre.

I hope you know that not everyone thinks like that. It’s just that sadly the people full of hate or misplaced resentment are louder. Lots of people are proud to pay their taxes and although they haven’t walked in your shoes agree that people with disabilities should have the right to live with dignity.

please do know there is kindness and decency out there too.

Plainspoken · 03/12/2025 17:54

kornwall · 03/12/2025 17:26

Best get rid of all philosophy departments in that case, don't want anyone thinking about unpalatable things, much better to just ignore the worst of humanities impulses and hope they go away.

Hi I actually have a philosophy degree, Oxford scholar, double first. There is nothing philosophically interesting about your musings. Posting goady comments on the internet to the parents of disabled children is not "doing philosophy", it's just being a cunt.

TempestTost · 03/12/2025 17:56

StartingFreshFor2026 · 03/12/2025 17:32

Do you really think this thread was the place for this philosophical argument or to be posing these questions and acting like they're just innocent questions?

The question that came up was how we value disabled people. That's an important discussion. And it makes perfect sense in the thread.

It is an increasing issue in part because it's costing society a lot of resources, and more people feel that there is a level of injustice.

Historically, those have been the kinds of scenarios where the rubber hits the road on things like this. When there are real costs people are feeling, their moral perceptions change.

That's a huge part of the OPs question. How do we value and provide for those who need more help. How do we balance that with resources for other people.

The other side is, if resources are being grabbed in some kind of fraudulent way, or people are being encouraged to claim resources they don't need, that is also going to impact the perception of scarcity. Which is horribly dangerous.

You are the one derailing with shit like "you want to kill my 9 year old" and that is bloody inappropriate. If you can't engage appropriately in a discussion because of your emotions that is your own issue to deal with.

kornwall · 03/12/2025 17:57

Plainspoken · 03/12/2025 17:54

Hi I actually have a philosophy degree, Oxford scholar, double first. There is nothing philosophically interesting about your musings. Posting goady comments on the internet to the parents of disabled children is not "doing philosophy", it's just being a cunt.

Yes dear, so glad you to have your helpful contribution.

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