DH called DD annoying and it’s made me feel really sad

[GugiGi]

DH and I have 3 children, DS1 who is 19, DD1 is 16 and DD2 is 12.
DD1 is a live wire, she has such an incredibly vibrant personality, never stops, wakes up every morning and does a workout in our home gym, showers and by the time any of the rest of us make it downstairs she is already in the kitchen making an omelette or porridge, music on (not loud enough to wake anyone) dancing around. In the evening she’s always getting her homework done then doing something, she never seems to sit still, even if you check on her at 10pm she will be pacing around her room while testing herself on flash cards or FaceTiming friends, sometimes she’s being a little silly and will be balancing something on her head while she does so “for posture”. She’s got so much energy and is such an intelligent, vibrant girl. She can be hard to get a story out of as she does go off into mini stories within the story, but they are always told with such energy and are genuinely funny. She is the most active user of the family group chat, always sending little things she’s seen, silly selfies, little videos of her doing her sports or singing a song etc.

Tonight she sent a video into the family group chat, well multiple videos. She had tried to FaceTime as she was walking home but none of us answered (I was showering, no idea why DH didn’t). She was telling us a story about her day with her friends and did get distracted a lot during the story, stopped the story to show us a pigeon she passed, then said something which reminded her of a song which she then sung in the video. I appreciate it’s a long watch and hard to follow but I genuinely love that DD feels so comfortable just being her lovely, vibrant self with us. DH however went into a mood, he asked if I’d seen the videos and I said yes then said “she’s bloody annoying and needs to grow up”. DH isn’t very close to DD, they don’t have loads in common, DD is super sporty, loves a deep dive into random topics etc. DH is into his chess and history so will only bond with DD if she takes an interest in history. However this isn’t even sure fire as when DD started asking if the Nuremberg trials were ethical he got annoyed and said she was reading too far into it and would look like a “fascist sympathiser” if she said that to anyone else! He is always putting her down even when I tell him to pack it in, she’s too sporty, she needs to learn to just sit still for a minute, too high energy, too loud etc.
Its all making me quite sad as while DD doesn’t seem to mind, I just hate that she must sense her dad doesn’t particularly like her even if he does love her.

AIBU to find really sad? What do I do to stop it?

Oh and honestly I would be saying to him, don't make me choose between you, because I'll make a split second choice and it won't be you.

I would have huge concerns about the damage he is doing to her.

My father was like your husband, a critical bully, yet he was surprised when I refused contact when I moved out. He was so hurt apparently and wounded when I never relented.
My mother saw so little of me because she tolerated him and his behaviour.

Be careful OP, she will grow up and she will become reflective and perhaps will not want to be come home.

Home should be a safe space for her.
With a father like that, it really isn't.

Don't doubt yourself.
Sort him out firmly or risk the consequences.

She sounds highly intelligent and high energy. I recognise much of this behaviour in one of my kids.

Constant chatting and interrupting, being constantly ‘on’ and little downtime are becoming increasingly common behaviours both in those with ADHD and without. It’s thought that the constant stimulation offered by phones and social media from early years with quick jumping from one thing to another and no chance to experience boredom may be part of the reason. No one just stares out of the bus window anymore or walks quietly to gather their thoughts. Always always phone or podcast distractions.

Maybe suggest she take up meditation or engage in a course of deep reading of the classics or bible or philosophy. Something encouraging quiet reflection. Good long periods away from phone, iPad etc.

I must admit I find my child a little annoying on occasion as she does me I’m sure. None of us is perfect and we’re all different. But your husband has to reflect on who is the mature adult here and that none of us are perfect in every way for everybody. She can express her thoughts and opinions that are different to his and he needs to accept that and welcome it with grace.

Far better to have a different view from him on Nuremberg (and she’s still developing her thinking - debate with him in a non angry way helps develop that) than to be a dismissive parent showing dislike of your brilliant child. She’s fine as she is. Some will love her, some won’t. So be it.

My child is beginning to understand that some people are more introverted than others and need quiet. It comes with maturity if you’re patient. In my child’s case she sought a diagnosis herself of mild ADHD in young adulthood and it’s helped her understand herself and that some of her traits are extremely common if not almost mainstream ( and helpful) in the profession she is pursuing.

Even if your dd is the most annoying person in the world (and I don’t think she sounds annoying at all tbh), her dad should unconditionally love her and be there for her. It isn’t her job to squeeze herself into a tiny ‘acceptable’ box, it’s his job to work with the child he has and to ensure she feels safe and can be herself in the world.

The fact she’s never home is probably not just because she’s a busy bee but probably because she doesn’t want to be somewhere she’s not wanted. You need to pull him up on it every time and especially in front of your dd - she needs to know it’s unacceptable for her dad to speak to and about her the way he is.

I agree with this poster.
Also the fact that you say DH has no problems boring on about his interests- which I assume as a middle aged man aren't particularly interesting to his dc, yet you are all expected to listen reverently to him! He just doesn't like the way your dd delivers her stories.

With the tennis shoes, as an analology, if he has asked something about his hobby and dd had said "why would i care, i don't like chess?" I'm sure he'd be moaning that she was being disrespectful. Similarly if she'd told him he was sounding like a fascist!

Several posters have said dd sounds annoying, which she might be, but she's 16, still very young, but seems to be treating her dad with a lot more respect and maturity than he's treating her.

I'm surprised people are saying she sounds immature - asking questions about the ethicality of the nuremberg trial sounds pretty impressive to me for a 16 year old!

It's quite sad that he doesn't seem to take any interest in any of her hobbies or likes, (is there literally no sport he's the slightest bit into?) but even when she makes the effort to engage with him about how his day has been and his own interests he rebuffs her.

Apologies, haven't read the full thread...

DH sounds like a total dick. How lovely to have a DD16 (as we do!) that wants to engage with you and be sociable. He is very lucky, and clearly doesn't value what he has. Unfortunately fathers can have a lasting impression on their daughters, particularly at this age, so what a shame he behaves like this.

Lots of people on the thread seem to be opining on whether they would find your DD annoying...well frankly a lot of the time other people's children are annoying - the difference should be when they are yours and you love them and see the best in them. It's not a valid comparison imo.

I would say (slightly tongue in cheek) LTB before he completely crushes your DDs spirit and self confidence.

As soon as i read the OP I knew what kind of responses you would get here.

MN has a high representation of people who self-describe as introvert, socially awkward, anxious. There is a general mistrust/ bias against people who are extrovert, sociable, intelligent, sporty.

So while I can believe that some quiet personalities find it hard to be around someone who is vibrant and outgoing - much of these comments are triggered from insecurity and inferiority.

Which is what I think is going on with DH. Yes, there may be a character clash to some degree, and yes I can understand an incoherent pigeon story might annoy him - but it’s possible to be mildly irritated in a benign way. Essentially he is a quiet introvert and she is a sporty extrovert and she’s triggering his insecurities.

For all the posters on here who say she should “tone down” her personality”, if anyone told them to “tone up” theirs to be more outgoing they would say it’s impossible.

Essentially, you’ve asked a forum full of DHs what to do about DH.

My advice is to have a serious chat with him as he may not be conscious of how negative he is being with her. Potentially you could book a few sessions with a relationship counsellor so he can work through his issues with her.

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/the-nuremberg-trial-and-its-legacy

She might have read this.

The conversation struck me as being at a more advanced level: More “With 80 years hindsight, were the Nuremberg trials the best of dealing with the atrocities of WW2” than “victors justice innit, Free Palestine!”

Absolutely. It was an intelligent question.

She sounds wonderful and I would feel a bit sad too

Absolutely

@GugiGi goodness you and your dd are getting a bit of a pasting on here! The bit that stands out for me is your h complaining that her pacing is so ‘annoying just thinking about it’. He can’t see or hear her, but she’s still being annoying to him. That’s not normal. Is he a dullard, a fun sponge, a selfish single minded man who is only interested in other people who have similar interests or think the same way? I feel very sorry for your dd as she must surely feel that level of animosity.
Id be inclined to have a discussion with a family therapist perhaps to unpick that, rather than push for trying to define her as adhd.

Yes, only on mn is being an extrovert medicalised.

You are describing my daughter to a T- and she has ADHD.

I think she sounds so lovely and her father is being really cruel and dismissive and this needs addressing. For all the posters who say she sounds insufferable and a ‘pick me’ I would consider that at 16 some of her behaviour will have already been shaped by her father’s attitude towards her and some of these more ‘random’ comments e.g naming the pigeon I think may well be attributed to growing up aware you are not liked and sort of a mix of overcompensating and being silly and brushing things off. Many posters have explained how damaging it was to grow up in such an environment which I really hope the OP (and feel she has) takes onboard. As an adult I know many people who describe their father’s as miserable and joy sucking and those miserable old men are wondering why people don’t visit and bring the grandchildren.

I’m with the father here. Your daughter sounds intense. VERY intense.

And while I am sure she is perfectly pleasant in small doses, if I had to live with her I would be making myself scarce.

On the Nuremberg trials - other posters have pointed out it’s actually something well discussed among historians.
On monopolising our time, she simply does not and you clearly haven’t taken the time to read my subsequent comments.

Your daughter sounds like a lovely person and I understand why you're upset that he says negative things about her. She also sounds to me like she has ADHD and I think most people without ADHD would find her exhausting if she is so full on from early morning until late night every day.

She sounds like a lovely girl but I think she is rapidly arriving at the stage in life where she needs to take care how she presents herself in order not to rub other people up the wrong way.

She will soon be going into environments where not everyone is automatically sympathetic and she will need to win the good opinion of others, who might come from a completely different background and perspective.

’Is this considerate towards others?’ would be a useful starting point.

I personally find the videos inconsiderate as it effectively compels someone to watch to the end, in case something vital is said, but the viewer has no opportunity to express their own needs as they might in a face-to-face conversation.

For perspective, I was that highly articulate and arts-minded sixth-former, prone to singing, doing slightly zany things in public places and talking about classic literature to anyone who would listen. (I know, insufferable!) But I completely failed to realise that not everyone appreciated this and that other forms of ability, talent and intelligence were equally valuable. This is especially true in the workplace, where being zany or cutesy is rarely tolerated and only for very high performers.

It is also very possible that any zany or cutesy behaviour will make you look less intelligent than you actually are, especially for women.

I soon realised that I did better by being more measured and analytical in my self-presentation, but setting my creativity to work when it came to generating ideas. That is quite a powerful combination and has served me well in the workplace.

She has huge potential and as her mother @GugiGi you can really help her to channel it for the best possible results.

Your DH sounds like a beller, but he’s not wrong in that your DD needs to develop a little bit of self awareness, which will hopefully come with age. On the whole though, she sounds great. DH is lucky to have a DD engaged with the world and enthusiastic. I didn’t catch your respective work situations, perhaps he just needs a break after being surrounded by people at the office all day?

Very good point.

Even at the time there was a massive debate on whether the trials were the right way to deal with nazi atrocities. It’s far more nuanced than saying someone is a nazi sympathiser becsuse they want to talk about and debate The Nuremberg Trials. Signed Another Historian (just in case the OP’s nasty dh thinks he has the monopoly on being right about history).

Your DD sounds exhausting and yes, irritating, bless her. She does sound like she has ADAH. I'm sure your husband loves her but he probably sees her more like how other people might see her and it bothers him. I think you need to realise not everyone will be tolerating her or even going to be polite to her when she is older... Though you did say she is not bothered so this is a good thing - or maybe she is bothered but already learned not to react to it (I'm sure your husband not the only one who noticed her quirks).

But I would talk to your husband about it and discuss with him how he sees her and why he makes these comments. He is her parent and should support her, just like you do.

She sounds so much like me....all I heard growing up was: slow down, I can't understand what you are trying to say, rein it in, stop talking all the time. What people didn't realise was that I didn't understand why I was annoying them. I didn't think I was doing anything out of the usual. I was just being normal in my world.

Each comment felt like a criticism of who I was and really affected my self-esteem. People thought I was very extroverted...I wasn't. I'm actually very introverted but a hyper introvert.

Like your daughter, I don't have issue with concentration too much. I can focus, I don't lose things. Attention is not the problem, hyperness is. Physical but even more mental. My brain never stops, my thoughts are with me all the time, and these are most of the time creative thoughts, thoughts about what I can do, and most Importantly, what I SHOULD do.

I bless my hyper mind. It's made me a successful person in life. I am that 'I really don't know how you do it' friend, colleague, stranger!

But yes, I am also annoying. I also struggle with how slow I find everyone, especially with thoughts. I'm in my 50s and it happened again last night with my friends, trying to organise a trip. They were still trying to consider the things to think about to decide where to go when I'd long gone already through that list in my mind and was trying to share it with them. They do like me a lot though when I helped them move houses! I had sorted how to organise the packing in a few minutes when they were feeling overwhelmed with the task!

Like every traits, there are negatives and positives. I've finally became much more self aware of how hyperactivity affects me and others. My closest friends and family members accept me with the good and annoying, but some are very quick to call upon the good and then try to put me down for the annoying. That hurts my feelings.

You're a fantastic mum to your daughter!