Is the renaming of Dublin’s Herzog Park antisemitic?

[OpheliaIsntMad]

I think it is . Why make this decision at a time when anti semitism is increasing?

You were the one who made the claims that Moiselle was “peddling lies” and you resurrected this thread to make that point.
It is up to YOU to provide evidence to support that claim .

And I did!! Loads of it. And not one other person in this discussion has provided a single bit.

🙄

She hasn't peddled lies has she? She is just posting from her experience x

Exactly!
Unfortunately some people regard their own views as facts and other people’s as lies …

Is the renaming of Dublin’s Herzog Park antisemitic?

Obviously yes! as this prominent Irish man is being demoted for no reason other than being Jewish and believing Jews had the right to a state. The right to their own state was hard to dispute after Germany made a very serious and almost successful attempt to wipe them all out.

I don’t think Rachel is peddling lies. I do think she doesn’t write carefully enough to avoid misrepresentation sometimes, particularly if the reader is outside Ireland and can’t see the situation for themselves first hand.

For example, I thought from her newspaper articles that she was Jewish and was speaking as a member of that community.

If I didn’t live here I would have thought the Irish nation celebrated Oct 7th (from her article with Jonny Gould quoted upthread). That was most certainly not the case, if anyone is still in any doubt.

She has written recently about 7 out of 10 surveyed Irish people not believing Ireland has a problem with anti-semitism (while 2 out of 10 do). She frames this as people deliberately not listening to the Jewish community or not even being aware of their own antisemitism.

I believe Ireland does have a problem, but I follow the topic. I have read her newspaper articles. An alternative explanation for the survey results is that most Irish people are speaking from their hearts, they know they are not anti-semitic and that their friends aren’t and haven’t personally seen any evidence of it, so are unaware. The Jewish population in Ireland is very small and many/most people won’t know any of them.

Ignorance is not okay either obviously, but is a quite different thing from ‘the perception of Jews as being morally alien’ as Rachel puts it, or a society deliberately turning its back on its Jewish citizens.

It is very disheartening to hear your country repeatedly being branded as anti-semitic when you know in your heart most Irish people don’t feel that way. (There are always a few very unfortunately.) I don’t think it’s helpful for the Jewish community here either, who may get the impression that most of the population is against them. Seven out of ten people say there isn’t anti-semitism in Ireland because they know what’s in their own hearts and it’s not a rejection of our Jewish community.

No 'political pressure' to withdraw
Over the weekend the taoiseach said the proposal should be "withdrawn in its entirety".
"The proposal is a denial of our history... and will without any doubt be seen as anti-Semitic," the Fianna Fáil leader said.
"Our Irish Jewish community's contribution to our country's evolution in its many forms should always be cherished and generously acknowledged."
Tánaiste (Irish deputy prime minister) Simon Harris said he completely opposes plans to rename the park.
"It is wrong. We are an inclusive republic," he said on social media.
"This proposal is offensive to that principle."
The office of the current Israel President, Isaac Herzog, who is Chaim Herzog's son, expressed concern over the plans, and said the renaming of the park would be "shameful and disgraceful".
However, Mr Shakespeare said he did not make or receive calls from national political figures or any of their advisers.
"No political pressure hard, soft, or otherwise was brought to bear," he said.
Councillors spoke of their concerns and confusion at Monday's meeting.
Councillor Colm O'Rourke of Fine Gael said he understood why the Jewish community may see it as an attack, and said it was right the proposal does not proceed if it was not legally sound.
Sinn Féin's Dáithí Doolan said he wanted the renaming to remain on the agenda, for Herzog to be removed and replaced with "someone from the Jewish community we can all be celebrate and be proud of".
Councillor Daryl Barron, from Fianna Fáil, said the Jewish community had been hurt because of the "fiasco".
Labour Councillor Darragh Moriarty said he called an overreach by both the taoiseach and tánaiste were "outrageous".

I have no idea whose stupid idea it was to change the name of the park. Especially in the current situation.

The reasons most decidedly weren’t because he was Jewish!
Most Irish people thought the renaming very a bad idea at this time.

Sorry for typos

That’s a fair response. I understand why you would want to defend your country from accusations of antisemitism because it is a horrible thing and I believe that most people in Ireland are fair minded and tolerant.
FWIW - I dont believe the Irish have more incidence of antisemitism than other European countries. But the worrying fact is that antisemitism has been growing exponentially in the last decade or so ( before the war in Gaza) so people like Rachel Moiselle are right to get this conversation going.

Yes - I think it’s the timing that’s the problem.

Tbh I saw Amnesty and decided to give it a miss - don’t trust them, a bunch of activists pushing their own biases and agenda

Why would I have examples at my finger tips. You're the one who said Moiselle was lying, you must have the evidence?

It's incredibly transparent that the only answer you have to facts and evidence is emojis, because you have no evidence for your own counter-arguments.

Oh my god. You're on the internet! Do some research! Support your opinions so that they're stronger arguments! It's so simple.

You saw Amnesty so you tar all the other sources due to your perception of Amnesty? That's a you problem tbh.

Here we go again 🤡

I would agree with that. My issues are journalistic rigour. That is where all of the issues are stemming from.

I would hope that it's just a lack of care rather some deliberate action. What worries me and makes me think it could be more deliberate is that Rachel has been published in multiple outlets that regularly print outright genocide denial and glorification of the killing of Palestinian women and children. I did a post earlier that had evidence of this.

What, here we go with you replying to evidence with emojis?

We don't. That's a fact based on research. The Jewish faith is also directly recognised in our constitution. Can many countries say that?

https://www.jta.org/archive/jewish-religion-recognized-in-irelands-new-constitution

To answer the original question in this thread.

Yes, I think the decision to try to rename this park was ridiculous.

I would love to know whose bright idea it was to push it. Totally ridiculous and tone-deaf when there has been rising antisemitism in many countries.

I just can’t seem to communicate with you in any other way because you twist everything.
You accused Moiselle of peddling lies and having “murky” motives. And then you expected other people to provide evidence that she wasn’t lying.
It’s incumbent on you to provide evidence that she has lied. You have failed to do that. 🥴

”We don’t” ? What is it you don’t do?