Is the renaming of Dublin’s Herzog Park antisemitic?

[OpheliaIsntMad]

I think it is . Why make this decision at a time when anti semitism is increasing?

The article that people have quoted multiple times and that we're talking about right now. Come on.

Exactly.

Two tweets. One professor. One student. Neither celebrating. Both supporting Palestinian self-determination at an absolutely appalingly timed moment.

Your basing a lot on one person though (who later apologised I think you said? I might have that wrong.)

I’m in Ireland and didn’t hear Hamas PR.
I know I’m just another person but my experience to the news of Oct 7th was one of absolute shock and horror. Everywhere I looked here that is what I saw.

I think a lot of the comments on this page are from people outside Ireland and they are often relying on what they’ve read. I am relying on what I’ve seen and how I feel and what people around me say as well as what I’ve read and it gives a different perspective.

I do think we’re being judged harshly on the world stage and I think that is deliberate distraction to an extent (not by Rachel Moiselle to be clear).

So in other words, tone deaf.

I'm based in Ireland too. There have been posts from people including the OP using examples from England and proposing to transpose them to Ireland.

Yes, as I said. Did you miss me saying that? I also condemned the tweets.

No, I think you’re wrong there. Both parts are wrong. We’re talking at cross-purposes if that’s what you believe.

I think the following two tweets are most definitely celebrating October 7th . Writing the following in the immediate aftermath of Oct 7th is horrifying - the tweet most definitely implies that Hamas’ actions were justified.
“This sentiment was echoed by the President of the Student’s Union who wrote on X on 7/10: ‘Palestinians have a right to resist the brutal conditions imposed on them by the apartheid regime of Israel’.

A fellow Trinity PhD student stated on X that it should be ‘celebrated and supported’, that ‘it is beautiful.’
This hatred amongst the student body has been acutely felt by many Jewish students.

It is also clear that Jewish students at Trinity started to feel unsafe

TCD’s Chanukah event after 7/10 was described as an uncomfortable and unpleasant experience that Trinity refused to publicly promote, citing safety concerns.

I've read posts from Irish MNers on other threads. Of course they weren't outwardly celebrating as they'd rightly be banned. The posts were not backwards in coming forwards with where their loyalties and empathy laid. It's the same on this thread to an extent. Like I say not everyone believes there is a genocide the same as not all Irish people believe in Palestinian self-determination, at the cost of Jewish safety.

Teaching again. Always the public sector showing their bias.

"I think the following two tweets are most definitely celebrating October 7th ."

I disagree completely. I think they support Palestinian rights, albeit at an incredibly bad time to post such a thing. And I said I condemn those tweets.

"A fellow Trinity PhD student stated on X that it should be ‘celebrated and supported’, that ‘it is beautiful.’"

This is exactly what I was asking you the whole time. Can you find this? I couldn't. Please post if you can find it.

"TCD’s Chanukah event after 7/10 was described as an uncomfortable and unpleasant experience that Trinity refused to publicly promote, citing safety concerns."

This too. If you can find the evidence of this, please share. I couldn't. I said it was very weak journalism of Rachel to provide no sources.

I don’t know. If you could quote those posts it would help. Too often on MN I have seen a condemnation of what Israel is doing in Gaza (regarding the numbers of deaths of civilians etc) misinterpreted as anti-semitism.

Sorry - this is for @DaisyDenise
What exactly am I wrong about?

You say “Ireland was appalled by Oct 7th”
Im afraid not everyone in Ireland was appalled by October 7th.
Some people tweeted support for those who resisted “the apartheid regime of Israel “ in the immediate aftermath of the October 7th atrocity. That suggests to me that they “celebrated and supported” the action (as another Trinity student tweeted. )

Ireland as a whole. By which I mean the vast majority @OpheliaIsntMad.

We have seen evidence of one person tweet those words so far in this thread, not "some people". Let's have some rigour here.

There are too many different posts on different threads. Sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult. The argument that criticism of Israel doesn't equal antisemitism is a tired one. I'm not saying there's always deliberate racism but when you read around some of the posts and their posting patterns on this matter, you get to form opinions. Nothing concrete just gut instinct. Some are also not too clever at hiding their thoughts. It's why so many posts on antisemitism threads get deleted. Deny, detract and gaslight. Irony being this is coming from those talking about genocide denial.

I’m quoting from the link YOU provided.
It’s a newspaper report and if it was false I’m sure it would have been challenged by the university as libellous .

I provided 2 quotes - there are further examples in the article which I can no longer access.
You were the poster who denied there was any celebration of October 7th in Ireland .

"A fellow Trinity PhD student stated on X that it should be ‘celebrated and supported’, that ‘it is beautiful.’"
This is exactly what I was asking you the whole time. Can you find this? I couldn't. Please post if you can find it.

Hopefully it was deleted?
About a third of Trinity’s postgrads aren’t Irish btw. I’m not saying an Irish person couldn’t say this (very unfortunately I don’t believe that) but it seems a bit harsh to condemn the Irish on the basis of an unattributed tweet.

Yes, you are. So can you find actual evidence? Let's not rely on an assumption that the university would take a certain action. Let's rely on evidence.

I never denied any celebration. I have always denied the implication of widespread celebration.

And what two quotes? The two unattributed ones that I'm asking you to help me find proof of because I can't?

I'm confused too, why can't you access it anymore? There weren't any other quotes in it, for the record.

Excellent point.

@OpheliaIsntMad

To be clear I think you’re wrong that people on here have said that there isn’t any anti-semitism in Ireland/that nobody at all celebrated Oct 7th.

I also think you’re wrong to say that it hasn’t been claimed that Irish people as a whole celebrated. The quote I gave upthread from JonnyGould/Rachel Moiselle would give that impression if you didn’t know better. At the very least it has been implied.

Definitely. I have never said there's none.