Is the renaming of Dublin’s Herzog Park antisemitic?

[OpheliaIsntMad]

I think it is . Why make this decision at a time when anti semitism is increasing?

What is wrong with Zion road?

Terrorists or freedom fighters ? ? ?

It’s a matter of semantics, right? Look, I think the proposal is many things but probably not anti semitic per se- I am descended from Irish Jews who had to change their names due to the antisemitism in Ireland at the time however there is a history and context here that many won’t be aware of.

What’s wrong with Zion Road. Nothing. That’s the point!

Could you explain the history and context a small bit? I’m not sure what you mean exactly.

That Ireland has a significant history of antisemitism. Many people are in denial of this.

In the past the Catholic Church were afraid of other religions muscling in, that’s for sure. I do think that probably shaped opinions somewhat.

Times have changed.
I don’t think the vast majority of Irish people are anti-semitic these days, though there are always a few unfortunately. Anti-what Israel is doing is a different thing.

Yes. I think it’s a stretch to say that Ireland is currently anti semitic. However the context of historical anti semitism adds a level of distaste to this proposal. There are so many other issues the council could be focusing on. The singular focus on Palestine in Ireland strikes me as odd, frankly. It’s also become one of those absurd polarising issues in Northern Ireland with Catholic areas packed with Palestine flags and Stars of David in Protestant communities. It cheapens the issue rather than doing anything to promote a solution.

@Mintypanda Catholic areas? Protestant areas? If you had said Nationalist/Unionist/Loyalist I might give you more credence. Catholic/Protestant divide is very, very outdated.
I have yet to speak to anyone or indeed read anything where people want the Herzog name change because of his religion. It is because of his role in Haganah and the role he played in the IDF. I would question why some here have failed to acknowledge his brutal past involved in the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.

I don’t need your “credence” thanks, you understood what I meant. I live in NI by the way.

You could also argue that Nationalist and Unionist terms are outdated- the lines across all divides are blurred here and such areas might better be categorised along lines of poverty and disadvantage rather than anything else.

Some people ( maybe older) in NI still use “Catholic/ Protestant areas”
And we all know that it is generally used as a synonym for Nationalist/ Unionist so you’re being obtuse.

The ridiculous thing is that those communities have decided to conflate their conflict with a very different one happening in Israel and Gaza.
Nationalist communities identify with Palestinians ( the relationship between the PLO and IRA was one of mutual convenience. The PLO supplied weapons for the IRA ) The conflation has added to anti Israeli sentiment in my opinion.

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said and I also don’t believe the move to change the park name is motivated by antisemitism.

I do think that everything has a historical context and whilst Herzog’s actions look very different through a 2020s lens. In the 1940s the Jewish population of many countries (Belarus, Hungary, Poland- where my ancestors come from) had essentially been exterminated. The concept of a safe haven for Jews was very different then. If we dug deep enough into the history of any individual with a park or street named after them the council’s funds would be spent on nothing else.

Finding another Irish Jewish person to commemorate is a possible solution. Certainly preferable to erasing reference to the Irish Jewish community.

Apologies Ophelia I actually thought I was replying to ColadhSamh. My inept skills on this chat function would suggest I am indeed an older NI resident. I’m only 40 😂

Me too. And everyone uses Catholic and Protestant when referring to areas when it's relevant. It's just a bit less political I think. And unfortunately some areas are still very much predominately one or the other and yes it is usually the disadvantaged areas. But I live near a village where the current flags on display are Tricolour, Union Jack, Palestine and Gay Pride! Nobody minds, it's great really.

That's my take anyway but I'm a blow in from the South!!

Oh totally. Most people are secular and there are many unionists catholics and nationalist Protestants, fluent Irish speaking hurl-bearing protestants, etc. it’s wonderful to see. Where the divides are still entrenched tend to be areas of high social deprivation who have reasons that, when you delve deep enough, are completely understandable. Historical and recent prejudice in relation to jobs, community funding, sense of identity loss, inter generational troubles related trauma, etc.

I see some folk organising a football match now in support of renaming the park. How utterly cringe.

Yep.
I hope they are respectful of the Jewish community in the area. Many of whom are proud of Herzog for the part he played in fighting Nazism.

There is a C of Ireland Church on Zion Road, thats why the road is called that. Not because of the Jewish school which is on the same road.

Eejits with their football matches, every time they run one the Jewish community stay away from the park. Playground is currently under construction anyway so won't be too many kids there tomorrow. And rain is forecast.

Sad to say, anti-semitism has become ‘fashionable’. IMO it was too often there anyway, but dormant, or at least rarely openly expressed. .

Context IS everything.

Where and in what way is antisemitism fashionable? Enlighten me please

Saying a Jewish leader is a Nazi is a recognized form of antisemitism called Holocaust Inversion and thanks for showing everyone your true colours.