To challenge autistic DD’s detention?

[ThisFairShark]

Dd (14) is autistic, diagnosed at age 8. She has trouble reading social cues and knowing what is/isn’t appropriate to say, she’s always very honest at all times! and has a support plan at school and is under the SEND team.

In school, she wasn’t paying attention in her science lesson and a teacher apparently said “(DD’s name) am I boring you?” to which DD replied “yes a little”. The whole class started laughing and DD got given a lunchtime detention to be served next week.

I know for all intents and purposes this is rude behaviour but I’ve spoken to DD and she genuinely didn’t realise that this was something she wasn’t supposed to say, the teacher asked a question and she gave an honest answer…

now I’ve spoken to her about how the teacher actually just wanted her to pay attention and this was their way of asking her to do so, but I don’t really think she should have to do the detention as she wasn’t aware that she was being rude nor did she intend to be rude, she just doesn’t have the social awareness to understand that the teacher actually just wanted to pay attention and wasn’t genuinely asking if she found the lesson boring.

WIBU to talk to the school, CC’ing in the SENCO and ask that she be excused from the detention, and that in future, if teachers could be clearer (for example, “pay attention please, DD’s name”)?

It's not about complaining though, you can send a non confrontational email to help a teacher understand your disabled child better. I understand it's exhausting to be a teacher, it's also exhausting to be the parent of an autistic child.

My son was once asked if he could "hold it" for 5 minutes in a classroom when he asked to go to the toilet. The teacher explained they thought they were asking a yes/no question. My son took it as an instruction to physically hold his penis, and wet himself. I would have been doing him a massive disservice as his mother if I hadn't explained that to the teacher the next day. He didn't think he could say no and took "hold it" so literally. The teacher just wasn't on his wavelength at all and I understood that so we had a productive conversation. Another parent would have gone mad but that's not my style.

Adults telling other adults that they are boring is generally considered rude.

Im aware what autism is, having two teenagers with it and myself also 😂 I and my eldest often had detention for being “cheeky” and we are fine.

That’s a really raw and honest post by @Kreepture why wouldnt you want to do this for your child?
would you be happy with others reaching a stage with the ‘honesty’ of “well X is coming across as constantly rude and insulting to me, why should I guard what I say back and be polite?”

Most children get a detention that they don't really deserve at some point. It doesn't really matter. They aren't particularly unpleasant. On the flip side, every child definitely manages to avoid getting a detention at some point when they should have got one.

OP said she spoke to her child, she’s used it as teachable moment.

I get what the PP was saying that you have to teach your ND child about how the world works but we ALSO have a duty to advocate for them and to make the world a better, more understanding place for ND people. It’s not an either/or.

but adults wouldn't do it generally, would they, because yes, you are correct, it would be considered rude.

BUT @Dgll we are discussing an ND 14 year old here, when asked a question by their teacher, gave an honest answer and is punished!

Your comparison is not the same, at all.

The OP's DC didn't just announce that the teacher was boring her. She was sarcastically asked a direct question and gave an honest answer.

A detention was given because the teacher was embarrassed. There would of been better ways of dealing with this. a simple discussion at the end of class between teacher and the pupil would have sufficed.

She gave a truthful answer, she did not see the sarcasm behind the question.

I do see where people are coming from but ultimately, the world won’t bend to accommodate people who are seen to be rude to others, rightly or wrongly.

Skip ahead ten years, the child is now an adult and in a meeting at work but sits yawning while her boss speaks. Same question is asked, same answer given. She’d end up disciplined (and no doubt hated by her seniors) at work. Probably treated like a pariah by colleagues too, for acting that way.

I think it's good to use this incident as a teaching moment. Almost everyone in the adult world will hold her to account for her behaviour in years to come, when mum isn’t there to try and bail her out.

I have a Y7 child and my biggest surprise is how much these days detentions are first-line punishments for any transgression.

I have a “good” kid who tries incredibly hard but has picked up multiple detentions for losing pens etc due to ADHD. I regularly forgot stuff at school (also ADHD) and never had a detention in my life.

Oh god. Sometimes about every little thing.

That's the way secondary schools are now. Cracking down because behaviour can get unmanageable.

I’m normally on the side of teachers but in this instance the teacher was being passive aggressive and directed that at a child with known SEN.

Perhaps some learning on the part of the teacher is also required about how to be more direct with their pupils.

You said it was a power thing but it is just a normal human reaction to someone being rude or nasty to them. They won't think 'that person is autistic so I'm fine with being on the receiving end of a nasty comment'

If an adult did it to another adult. They wouldn't punish them by putting them in detention. They would be more subtle and just dislike the person for it or not give them a job/promotion. A detention is a kinder and more appropriate response for a child.

Just as a counterpoint to that - I work in a very ND friendly workplace and in a meeting like this:

-the person might take a movement break (stand up, stretch, use one of the fidgets we have in meeting rooms)
-if the person presenting noticed someone yawning they wouldn’t call it out with a pass-agg “sorry am I boring you?”
-we adapt things like meeting lengths, formats etc to accommodate different preferences and strengths.

I never use sarcasm in the classroom; we're always told not to. There are methods to re-engage and support. However, I think it's appropriate for the parent to talk to the child and socialise them about this. I wouldn't complain about the detention. As pp have said, it's a learning moment.

I would definitely speak to the school, even if not to save her from being punished for something she wasn’t aware was rude, but to get things in place so that it doesn’t happen again. A reasonable adjustment here is that teachers don’t use sarcasm, unless it comes with an explanation at least, and if they don’t do that, to be more lenient. She will hopefully get to know more of these sayings and idioms as she gets older and get better at judging tone, but she has a disability which makes it difficult to understand things like this. My sibling is a teacher and has a couple of autistic children this year who take things very literally. She says they are lovely kids, very well behaved, but she does need to adjust her language or be willing to explain things more.

Teacher asked a question- student answered honestly and is given a detention. Luckily the majority of my DS15s teachers would have laughed. They all now he's autistic and are indulgent because he is always polite and os very distressed if he has been accidentally rude to someone. His 1:1 helps him out and explains when he has misunderstood a social situation. Doesn't your DD have a 1:1 @ThisFairShark ? And if not, maybe they think she has sufficient skills to understand? Mine wouldn't be in school without his so his disability is visible because he's never alone which might be why the teachers are very nice to him and don't hold him to the same standards as the others (he also has no homework and is not required to sit exams).

Workplaces do bend, it’s called reasonable adjustments. And if you work with someone that you know has a disability causing them to be very literal, you make allowances as decent humans.

@Kreepture

"I would LOVE to unmask, to speak my mind, to say what i think, i do sometimes, it usually gets me deleted for breaking the TG.. and i often have to apologise for upsetting people when it wasn't my fault, and has me largely unliked by most people"

This is heartbreaking and precisely, imho, why educating the populace about neurodiversity is vital. 🌻

I used to get them all the time back in the 90s. My school was not strict but my form tutor was ex army and had an issue with my disorganised ways. It didn't really bother me.

YABU. She should do the detention. You should back the school. She might not have intentionally been rude, but she does need to learn it is rude and why. Getting her excused from things because she is autistic might work at school but she's only going to struggle in the real world.
I have an autistic DD the same age and she really struggled with the transition to secondary school. But I have always supported the school. If I disagree with something the school does I will talk to them, but never in front of DD. A few times she has had some detentions for seemingly minor things but I did agree that she should do them as it sets a firm boundary. Things that might not come naturally to her will be more easily remembered if she can at least remember the consequence.

I have to admit I’m a bit taken aback by some of the replies. My autistic child would also answer honestly, and I’m sure the OP’s child was polite. My son would likely do the same — and then probably elaborate on why he was bored and offer suggestions to improve things! Is it what teachers or other students want to hear? No. It can be jarring and often problematic.

Would a detention change that? Absolutely not. If anything, it could damage the relationship with the teacher. My child would attend the detention (he’d insist, because it’s the rule), but I’d also arrange a calm chat with the teacher afterwards about how to avoid a repeat, and I’d include my child in that conversation.

They bend up to a point but it is pretty superficial.

I'm assuming the majority here have never lived or known an autistic person..are you seriously asking them to change there mindset to a normal thinking person..no I dont see it as rude, I'm autistic and this is how I would answer so like it or lump it its how I am and I'm not going to be put into a box that people are saying autistic people should be put into to confirm which we can't. And I have a very successful career because the people I work with know I can't help thinking differently so why would you try to make someone feel bad about the way they are. That's them and you be you.