Does anyone else find recent graduates very lacking in grammar and spelling skills?

[headtohead]

I manage a team where every year we have a graduate intake. It’s a technical role (think construction industry). All of these people put in decently written CV’s and interview well.

In a lot of cases though, when it comes to them starting the role it’s pretty clear that they are hopeless at writing simple emails. Their spelling and grammar is atrocious, they have no understanding of setting out a letter or a mail, they cannot use commas and full stops, nor do they use capitals at the start of sentences.

We need to write succinct, technically accurate replies to customers, they write as they would talk about the subject. ‘You can’t use that brick there’ - no explanation to customer of what the correct product is and why etc. Just like a child would write a sentence.

It’s not just the recent intake that are like this, I’ve noticed it over the last few years. I’m constantly rewriting their replies or helping them to word things in a better way. They totally reply on spellcheck but that will often change the word to something totally different but the writer simply does not see it as they don’t know how it’s spelled in the first place.

These are adults with good degrees, how did we lose so much written English ability? Is anyone else noticing this?

I know and I warn them. They will not heed my advice.

https://libguides.hull.ac.uk/grammar/commasplices

@RampantIvy Inaccurately using a comma to join distinct and independent ideas, instead of keeping separate with a full stop, using a conjunction or including a semi-colon.

E.g. We need to write succinct, technically accurate replies to customers, they write as they would talk about the subject.

We need to write succinct, technically accurate replies to customers. They write as they would talk about the subject.

We need to write succinct, technically accurate replies to customers, but they write as they would talk about the subject.

We need to write succinct, technically accurate replies to customers; they write as they would talk about the subject.

Commas are internal punctuation, which should separate different clauses making up a whole grammatical sentence.

Yes, the OP's on an internet forum, however, comma splicing tends to reflect conversational style and run on ideas (as people think and speak, rather than write and refine), and tends to be an ingrained habit as a result of a fundamental misunderstanding of standard English grammar (not a deliberate or particularly valid choice for a reason when writing online).

Chartered Engineer is correct as that is his professional title, or CEng.

I also used to spend time teaching things like punctuating speech

I think I was taught that at primary school. But anyone who reads fiction, and pays attention to what they're reading, should know how it's done.

We were certainly taught SPAG, and how to set out a letter, with address, date and salutation, and did comprehension exercises.

But that was in the 1960s, before the fashion for not correcting SPAG because it stifles their creativity crept in to teacher training.

We have had student nurses the last few years that are barely literate. Writing notes (which are legal documents) as though they are texting their mates. Unable to use punctuation or grammar.
I have also saw the quality of the essays etc that getting submitted to the universities & have no idea how they are passing.

Ironically, the next crop of graduates are the first year to have sat the “new, more rigorous” SATs in yr6. More pointless SPaG terminology hammered into them than ever before, which had little impact on writing standards in the long-term.

I’m a former yr6 teacher and parent to a 2026 graduate (all being well). DS tuts at me all the time as I bang on about his punctuation. He uses the essentials correctly but little beyond that.

And crept out again under Gove. Fronted adverbials anyone? It's simply not true that it isn't taught. But teaching is not the same as learning and while schools are made to bear the weight of every single aspect of life from potty training, toothbrushing, staying safe online, navigating relationships and financial planning into old age, less time is available for the absolute basics. Plus, as I said on P1, reading actual long form text and books is now the exception rather than the rule.

I know a teacher who puts your instead of you’re and she’s in her 40s. I’m in a “naice” area with a few grammar schools around and can’t believe how many people I’ve met in their 40s who do this. It’s embarrassing. Not just the graduates!

I would find that so disheartening.

This isn’t new. I was training graduate journalists how to use apostrophes and singular/plural grammar in 2005. My most recent graduate (not a journalist anymore) has great written English - but she also speaks mandarin and is very intelligent. I do now use English GCSE B grade as a guide/minimum (not employed anyone scored by numbers yet).

Thank you. I have not heard of this term before but I would have written those sentences as you have written them.

I don't particularly find it age related at work. It drives me mad. I don't care about typos. I don't even much care about the odd dodgy apostrophe. Excessive use of "yourself" and "myself" makes my lip curl, but I can ignore it. What really sends me completely off the rails is people just writing absolute nonsense where the sentence construction is just so bad that it's not a sentence and where the gist of what they're trying to convey has just vanished amongst the garbled mess that is their attempt at a paragraph.

The plus side is that it means "writing comprehensible English while also being able to manipulate numbers" is a niche that few people appear able to fill. Given I am able to fill it, I do so quite happily.

I agree with what you are saying as far as standards dropping but ffs your post is dreadful. The team you "manage" will be horrified by your grammar.

Are you an English teacher?

I work in a team that writes and edits copy for a living, and I find it difficult to recruit good writers. However, I don't think this is a particularly new phenomenon. It's been the case for the 25ish years I've been working in my industry.

Writing well is quite a specific skill, and it's one that really isn't just about spelling, grammar and punctuation. It's also about the ability to write clearly and simply (much harder than people imagine) and instinctively tailoring writing to different audiences, occasions and speakers.

I'd say that it's much, much easier to find people who can spell and punctuate than people who can write with clarity, impact and flair. I need candidates who can do both, of course, so it's kind a moot point for me, really - but a lot of people who think they can write well just because they can spell and punctuate are, in fact, still painfully bad writers.

Candidates for roles in my team have to complete a timed writing test as part of the selection process. It's generally been a good way of weeding out the people who had help writing their application.

I'll be honest, OP: there are lots of minor errors in your post which would see you rejected at the initial application stage if you were applying for a job with me! Sorry. However, I assume that writing is only one element of your role, rather than its main focus. And in any case, in a post in an online forum it really doesn't matter two hoots if you make mistakes, and I wouldn't usually a) mention it or b) care. I've probably made a few in mine, and I'm certainly not going to bother to go back and proofread it.

No, it's a common noun. Same as doctor, police officer, cleaner.

What I don’t understand is that Outlook will show you where you are making a mistake. Shouldn’t it be company policy to use the settings for this? I was fairly thick at school and it was only thanks to Word that I finally understood what the passive voice is.

Nope. It’s a job, like editor, manager, nurse, cleaner. So common nouns.

(I’m a copyeditor.)

This is what comes of valuing a piece of paper over testing for skills.

Interviews are just as redundant a metric when hiring. Most graduates "interview well" because they've been told what to say and learned how to perform it. And then a completely different person actually shows up to do the job.

I find this with every generation.

More than a couple!

Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones, @headtohead …

I would make it painful for them. Review their letters but instead of rewriting for them make them add the additional information. Eg the fence "you can't use that brick" feedback: explain why brick is inappropriate in this situation and what is appropriate to use. Then send it back to them to rectify. Do you charge in 6 minute units with a max the graduate can charge for a job? Really quick motivator to do better if you use up your hours on shit letters and have to do the rest of the work in your own time.

That said, it took me three years to get a letter out unchanged and I write well.

One if the worst I've seen was from a top level professional firm using "expert" as a verb throughout a document. My teeth still itch thinking about that one!

People in glass houses OP!

Just skimming your post I can see an incorrect apostrophe and sooooo many comma splices, my pet hate!

A great example of Muphrey’s Law (the typo is intended).