To think all schools should teach children the old traditional hymns

[Staringintothevoid616]

Just switching between channels and Songs of Praise came on. It was a run down of the most popular school hymns.complete with recorders It brought back many memories and how important communal singing is. It doesn’t matter what your religion is, everyone should know the most popular hymns as a way of uniting society.

If you want your kids to learn hymns at school, there are chirch schools that do that. Leave the rest of us alone.

Religious Welsh Children will be learning Hymns in Welsh, as we speak. There's no dearth of religious input for those who are interested, as you know, when you pop your head into a Cathedral on a coach trip.

The Good Old Days were a specific time in your past, that you're hankering after which is likely being amplified by the current politicial rhetoric whipping this kind of thinking up, by individuals for their own individual gain. You're lapping it up.

If you can zoom out a bit and get a bit of perspective, there were middle aged women a 100, 200, 300, 1000 years ago thinking "things are going to hell in a hand cart, it's not like it was". Because change is difficult for some humans. You're not special, twas ever thus. Perspective is the key. Not the papers, or the TV.

I'm just thankful that this will never happen. My son is at the end of first school and their school songs are things like "true colours", "with a little help from my friends", "this is me" etc.
He's never been disadvantaged by not knowing any hymns and I grew up catholic. How many state funerals, royal weddings etc do you think he'll be attending? Considering we live in the NE, we're about as far removed from royal pomp as possible (I'm not sure they even know we exist up here) so he's hardly going to be caught short at an event.

None of this is true.
The UK is bristling with museums (many of them free), NT properties, houses, town halls, galleries telling the story of the country. The history of the country is taught in schools and can be found in all libraries.
TV is bursting with British programmes from Coronation Street to Happy Valley.
What old songs do you think aren't being sung/played in schools, pubs, churches, on tv and radio across the land?

ALL music relies on musical taste. Not everyone’s taste extends to hymns. ‘Our’ society is built on all sorts of things, not just Christianity.

What’s even remotely ‘uniting’ about making people sing songs of worship to a god they don’t believe in?

Communal singing is fine and people already find plenty of places to do it. School, choirs, gigs, church, football matches, weddings, funerals, etc. But insisting that it be hymns is evangelical guff. Honestly, fuck that for a game of soldiers.

Is that what the 616 in your user name references ?

I was just wondering, as other posters were.

It matters not really, Just chatting.

Are you thinking of any particular countries? Can you elaborate at all?

But Christianity has embedded itself in the UK in many different ways. Absolutely teach kids about the use of religion in power and conquest, eg In hoc signo for Christianity, the development of Islam and its teachings with the specific aim of conquest esp getting access to the Mediterranean etc.

But Christianity is interwoven in every aspect of our society, from laws to art, that perspective through which nearly 2000 years of our history has been developed is importabt for all UK citizens to understand from many different perspectives. Christian songs are a part of that Culture too

Go on OP. What void are you looking into and what's with the 616?

It's all skirting on relevant to the schtick you're peddling. That's why we're interested.

There are songs that many school children across the country would all know that are popular in schools. The Harvest Festival for one - think it's called the Harvest Samba - 'where we bring our fruit and vegetables, cause we want to share the best of all the good things that we've been given' - very catchy! And cauliflowers fluffy is another one! There are also many more modern Christmas songs that children know well along with more traditional songs like Away in a Manger.

My DCs are early 30s late 20s and still remember the words - I was a teacher so they are ingrained in my brain too!

It's change isn't it. People don't go to church anymore, not like they used to. In 30 years time, there will be far less people going to church on a Sunday as most congregations are older people. I think a range of songs is good for children to sing in school, modern and traditional. I think it better reflects our changing culture now.

Ah ok, it’s just a bit of a strange question, but definitely nothing to do with an angel number.

In place of hymns, we should teach children culturally significant songs for the 21st century like:

Yellow Submarine
Who do you think you are kidding, Mr Hitler?
Last Christmas
"You only sign when you're winning..."
That one out of the Jet2 ad

Songs from the Greatest Showman, Matilda 'When I grow up, Katy Perry 'fight song'. Plenty of current songs. They put the words up on a projector and everyone joins in. No need to push jesus on anyone. Just communal singing, bringing joy, and often with positive messages.

And in 10 years time no one will know them.

Also they are not sung at societal rituals like Remembrance Sunday etc

Well yeah. Culture evolves. It's not always a bad thing.

OP,

If its the nostalgia you are after then look for someone called James B Partridge in youtube. He's the person someone who mentioned who did a set at Glastonbury with all the old primary school hymns.

Our school songs change regularly, but we’ve had Reach (SClub) and I’m still Standing (Elton John). I much prefer these to the religious songs we had when I was at school.

Fair enough.

I think people are just more aware of how some numbers are used as code these days, what with all the far right stuff going on. They like their numbers.

I suspect that the OP is more concerned by the prospect of culture evolving than about the benefits of communal singing.

The uk is now a multi faith country.

Oh yes, that whole bringing unity stuff. All together now for All Things Bright & Beautiful

The rich man in his castle,
the poor man at his gate,
God made them high and lowly,
and ordered their estate…

FFS.

I did not sing at school my mouth was moving but no sound.
No way am i going to join a choir now, or even learn hymns.

I thought it was pointless when i was at school still think its pointless now.

Gosh I remember hating assemblies and singing hymns, I knew I didn’t believe in god then and I felt I was forced into joining in. Me and my friend used to make stupid lyrics up as our infantile way of rebelling.

I loved singing so joined the school choir and we didn’t sing hymns. So yes communal singing is lovely but no I think YABU absolutely that it should be hymns.

@Staringintothevoid616

If you want your children to sing hymns, take them to church or put them in a children's church choir. Or teach them to them yourself. Saying these hymns are 'traditional songs' is naive. They were written to praise the Christian God and to proselytize the Christian faith. I agree that they are beautiful but they don't belong in schools. And I say this as a Christian.

To be up front with you, I am in a country that specifies separation of Church and State, although that line seems to be getting blurrier each day. And that's NOT a good thing. People, especially children, need to be free to practice their religion (or lack of) without feeling that one particular faith is being tacitly approved of in publicly funded schools.

I'm sure there are a plethora of traditional British folk songs, some in languages other than English. I grew up in an area of the US that had a large Hispanic population. As part of being taught traditional American folk songs we were taught some simple songs in Spanish. Children in the UK could be taught not only English folk songs, but simple songs in other languages native to the UK. Doing so not only teaches them the beauty of song, but the rich musical heritage of the British Isles.

No. I think religion should be kept out of schools other than to educate that 'some people believe...'. I don't agree with forcing children to sing words of praise and devotion to a God they may not believe in. Because that's what hymns are, not just a cheery community sing song.