To think all schools should teach children the old traditional hymns

[Staringintothevoid616]

Just switching between channels and Songs of Praise came on. It was a run down of the most popular school hymns.complete with recorders It brought back many memories and how important communal singing is. It doesn’t matter what your religion is, everyone should know the most popular hymns as a way of uniting society.

I was brought up singing all those hymns. At school and at church. Even though I’m an atheist now, I still get a surge of joy and nostalgia when I hear them. But I don’t sing them anymore because the words are completely irrelevant to me. My children have been brought up in a religion free home. School is a different story as we are in NI and religion is ingrained in the system. But they didn’t learn hymns, just a few child friendly choruses of thanksgiving about harvest and other religious occasions. Or ‘God songs’ as they called them😅 My eldest sang in two years of the Peace Proms - a magnificent annual cross border event involving hundreds of schools who all come together having learned the same songs and the same movements. A sea of children aged 10-11 all singing in unison. They sang pop songs and folk songs and I get goosebumps just thinking about it. My children don’t feel a surge of anything when they hear the hymns I know. Something else will fill them with nostalgia when they are older. They don’t need my experience or my memories or my songs. And they don’t need to know the words of hymns they will only ever come across a handful of times in their lifetime. Unless they find religion, which they are perfectly entitled to do.

Oh, I'm quite sure it's possible to hanker after the benefits of communal singing and enhance your commitment to our "culturally Christian society" by watching "Songs of Praise" on your sofa while wondering why schools don't do all this allegedly uplifting hymn singing.

But why are you focussing on traditional hymns?

Literally no-one before you on this thread has said it is offensive to sing songs where you don't believe the lyrics. They have suggested it could be irrelevant or inappropriate, but not offensive.

I feel that we have lost much of our identity because we no longer sing the old songs, tell the old stories or follow our old traditions. Other countries have an identity because they do this, but what is ours? Maybe semi-american due to the lack of British programmes?

English songs in English I suppose. You seem to be forgetting that there are four counties in the UK and we don’t all speak English. Certainly hundreds of years ago we would not have been singing English songs.

No. I'm against the indoctrunation of children. My children sing songs at school in assembly. All positive songs with a positive message. No need to push religion on to anyone. The sooner we get rid of this 'we're a christian country so everyone must adhere to these things, just cos' the better.

i said it was a way to learn about it. To learn about one of the most powerful forces that have shaped the country in which they live. Why would I want to brainwash a kid about something I don’t believe in

And what are those songs?

At what kind of local and national events will they be singing these hymns?

As a child, I sang a lot of hymns in school. As an adult, I've sung them mostly at funerals and a few weddings.

A lot of weddings and funerals don't include hymns in any case. And of those that I've attended which do, they are very rarely the ones that I sang at my primary school in the 1970s and 1980s. So where is all this collective hymn-singing going to take place, exactly?

If we really want to create an inclusive culture in which there are certain songs that everyone knows and loves from their childhood, wouldn't it be better to choose a selection of non-religious songs that are meaningful for everyone?

Personally, I had no issue with my dd singing hymns in school. She sang a whole load of other things as well. But if we are going to start prescribing a list of songs that everyone has to sing, then I would go for something more inclusive personally.

What, like the old Pagan songs and stories and traditions? How far back are we going, should we not be doing it right and going Neolithic?

For someone who isn’t a Christian you are very vocal about Christian hymns and our “Christian traditions”. if your genuine concern was bringing the community together then any singing can do that. Maybe a few traditional Muslim and Jewish songs, plus songs from other countries & cultures would be educational for all don’t you think?

It’s almost as if what you really mean is you want a return to “traditional white British culture” of the 80’s.

I don't go in for ancient wisdom
I don't believe just 'cos ideas are tenacious it means they are worthy
I get freaked out by churches
Some of the hymns that they sing have nice chords but the lyrics are dodgy

Well, everyone does speak English, even if it's not their first language

There is no English National Anthem. There ought to be one (Jersualem would be my choice), but God Save the King is not a National Anthem. The United Kingdom is a union of nations.

I think some of the most common hymns, yes, but also some other songs.

You’re the one mentioning English - why can’t all Welsh Children learn some hymns in Welsh,

in fact our Scottish head teacher sometime sang some hymns in Gaelic - same tune - in fact a lot of our hymns have Gaelic tunes

Numerology woo I think.

From the website linked below:

• Angel number 616 offers guidance for personal growth and spiritual awakening through its harmonious blend of energies from numbers 6 and 1.
• It encourages creating balance in various aspects of life, such as home environment, relationships, and self-care.
• Practical applications include fostering a harmonious home, balancing relationships, prioritizing self-care, and maintaining a positive mindset to harness the transformative energies of 616.

Link here:

Unlocking the Secrets of Angel Number 616: A Transformative Journey | HowStuffWorks

So not Christian. But some sort of celestial higher power thing. Guardian angels and all that.

And expecting someone of a completely different religion to sing songs about loving Jesus is offensive.

Nice try! But you need to work on your reading comprehension. This is only maybe ten/twenty posts in so you don't need to scroll too far.

Learning hymns doesn’t teach anything about the “powerful forces” though. They can learn that in lessons about ethics (not sure that the way Britain became a Christian country is something to celebrate, mind you. But that’s what makes the songs more attractive, eh? Cos the truth isn’t pretty.)

Children can learn of all the major stories and tenets of all religions and beliefs in lessons. And they should. Prioritising one religion and enforcing it through catchy songs is biased brainwashing.

We sang a strong mix of hymns and folk songs in assembly.

Streets of London was one that I recall.

I love singing in choirs. I also find these hymns incredibly dreary.

So how many uplifting communal singing events do you take your children to @Staringintothevoid616 ?

Thanks for the info but it’s not for any of those reasons. Interesting, but bizarre rabbit hole you’ve gone down there

How would that work at national events (assuming some law is passed compelling all to sing)?

The songs children sing at Welsh schools connect them as Welsh. Much more appropriate.

We do learn hymns in Welsh but how is that relevant when you want Everyone to know the same songs? Are the children in the rest of the UK going to learn Welsh.