To think all schools should teach children the old traditional hymns

[Staringintothevoid616]

Just switching between channels and Songs of Praise came on. It was a run down of the most popular school hymns.complete with recorders It brought back many memories and how important communal singing is. It doesn’t matter what your religion is, everyone should know the most popular hymns as a way of uniting society.

All religions? That might go on for quite some time. Would be looking forward to the Thelema lessons!!!

Did you think the same about the Hamas leaders son telling us about Gaza or the reporting of Trumps Speech?

There’s a difference between lies and symbolism

You do realise that every different denomination of Christianity has their own hymns right? Your 'old traditional hymns' would be unknown to Catholics or Baptists.

Have you read the Bible : I Tim 2:12, 1 Cor 14:34. And not in Church, but that old classic Ep 5:22.

And lets not forget the golden oldies such as Duet 21:10 onwards. That's the one about taking the enemies women captive, the beautiful ones you can take for wifes.

Is there a hymn about that ?

The bible is far from pro women.

And that is not a whataboutism. Because that sort of teaching is wrong, no matter what religion.

The Bible is horrific.

Having been brought up CofE (grandfather a church organist), gone to a Catholic School, attended Methodist Chapel with my great aunt (they like a good sing song) and my sons school linked to a Baptist church - I can assure you I’ve sung the mainstays in all of them😀

Yes, I remember that. And the one about the little mouse with clogs on.

Firstly, that has nothing to do with the argument here

Secondly I wouldn’t argue against the horror in the Bible.

You seem to have made the classic atheist mistake of not looking at nuance regarding faith and just gone into autopilot “Christianity is so bad” without thinking about it.

As I said in my post, its referenced in the BBC article posted on the preceding page (which discusses the recent rise in church attendance - something you brought up - and some of its drivers). It's an example of people being worried about the UK losing its culture without realizing that the "cultural practices" they cite are actually relatively modern.

Hymn singing in schools has been around for longer than Christmas Markets, but is still relatively modern, particularly in the context of the last 2,000 years of Christian cultural influence.

Huh ?

The Bible is clear, according to Mat 2:13, they fled to Egypt.

The Bible does not say they symbolically fled to Egypt.

So you are saying the Bible is wrong, that it has errors.

I didn’t link the article, you’ll have to pick that up with the person who did.

No, the Bible is symbolic when it suits OP's argument. Duh.

Did I ever get an answer as to why the singing has to be Christian hymns and not other well known secular bangers?

Yes that point has been answered several times over

Most of the Bible is full of symbolism

And predictably the OP tries to claim this is without foundation.

What does the flight to Egypt symbolise then? Its generally accepted by Christian scholars and historians to be literal. The holy family fled to Egypt and stayed there until Herods death. You either believe this to be true or you don't, but I can't see an argument for it being 'symbolic'. What other meaning does it symbolise?

Er no, what I’m saying is, in much of Christianity Egypt symbolically means the mundane.

Please keep up.

And this thread isn’t about the validity of Christianity so it’s pointless rolling out standard anti Christian rhetoric- please try and argue about the point being discussed

Oh dear.

I linked the article to show an example of people turning to Christianity.

Are these the people you think can bring society together?

It doesn't. It symbolises oppression or 'the wordly'. Are you suggesting the flight to Egypt is supposed to symbolise the Holy Family running towards oppression or running towards mammon? Citation please because that's a new one on me.

Quote: "You seem to have made the classic atheist mistake of not looking at nuance regarding faith and just gone into autopilot “Christianity is so bad” without thinking about it."

Given that you have stated that you are not a Christian, I am surprised you appear to have never encountered the concept of de-converting from religion.

All that stuff people go through, the deep deep thinking that is done. The internal turmoil folk go through to escape a flawed belief that has been ingrained from birth .The self doubt, the 5 stages of grief.

Do you think atheists come from some clone factory, hidden deep in the basement of the Guardian HQ. That they all have faulty programming. Poke hard enough, and they crumble. They make mistakes about what the Bible says, and more importantly, what it does not say.

Have you never wondered why some atheists know the Bible so well ?

I suppose maybe you don't know this stuff, you have said you are not a Christian after all.

And hey, I am an atheist. What do I know about Christianity.

Where I live many choose the catholic schools

Christianity isn't bad.

Christian Nationalism is.

It also isn't very British, the current trend towards it being more a cultural import from the US.

I was very clear that I was referring specifically to the article posted. I don't know why you would think otherwise.

I’ll break it down for you a bit.

At 5 years old I was plunged into Sunday school and where there was lots of talk about heaven and hell. This was at a time where children were shielded from death and parents didn’t get counselling when they lost a child so my parents did what they thought was right at the time, probably being scared senseless by others suggesting we would go to hell if we weren’t baptised.

I don’t have pagan beliefs, per se, but i do appreciate the impact of the seasons around me on nature, new life in spring and winding down in winter, the non-human things that exist in our world more than stories made up to control people offered by the main religions.

Science makes far more sense to me. “Good things happen to good people, god punishes bad people” isn’t especially intelligent, and I could never work out how a tiny baby could have done something so wrong that they needed to be taken away by god. “They were very poorly and the medics tried everything they could” isn’t especially intelligent and made far more sense, and allowed me as an adult to research the condition and discover it was congenital and I could pass it on to my own children if I decided to have them. (Science rules.)

As another poster has pointed out, Lazarus comes back from the dead. Weirdly, the concept of dead Jesus disappearing from where he had been left didn’t help my night terrors either.

Ahh! Christofascism wrapped in folksy nonsense. Wasn’t it great when we sang hymns? Aren’t atheists a bunch of rotters! Bring back church on Sunday, rape in marriage, and polio.