To think all schools should teach children the old traditional hymns

[Staringintothevoid616]

Just switching between channels and Songs of Praise came on. It was a run down of the most popular school hymns.complete with recorders It brought back many memories and how important communal singing is. It doesn’t matter what your religion is, everyone should know the most popular hymns as a way of uniting society.

I loved the hymns at my CofE primary school when I was a kid. We'll walk the land was epic!

However, I'm not Christian and neither are my kids. They go to a Christian school and have singing assemblies, but the songs are all age appropriate non religious songs. Often about friendship and trying your best etc. I'm a teacher and our singing assemblies are also the same. You don't get many hymns nowadays, but the whole key stage singing still feels great!

Religion doesn't have a place in schools so it follows that there shouldn't be singing of hymns.

plenty of other songs that can be sung (if there really is a need).

like it or not, we are a culturally Christian country. Have been for hundreds of years, Christianity has shaped our institutions, laws, architecture, holidays, language etc. I’m afraid a couple of decades of more people of different faiths aren’t changing that.

What songs are you suggesting?

What's with the 616 user name?

We used to sing Streets of London at school in the 70s- I loved it.

Absolute hokum. We are becoming more divided because newspaper owners and billionaires are gaining political power by saying 'look at them, not us'. Hence we're all squabbling over boat folk while those with money get away with all sorts.

The last census showed less than half of people in the UK were religious. Meanwhile, the only nations with religious leaders automatically gaining a seat in the legislature (ie House of Lords for us) are the UK and - er - Iran.

The UK's particular brand of Christianity is a moveable feast and is only as it is as Henry VIII wanted an heir. So, time this all changed again, really - have collective singing, but the Christian element can do one.

How many people will go to a state funeral or a royal wedding?

and these will be Church of England songs. Not necessarily shared with other Christian denominations.

There is a lot of traditional old music that could be sung. There is a great history of folk music that could do with reviving. I don't see hymns as needing to be essential to that.

Personally, if there was the funding, I'd like to see more proper sheet music for singers rather than lyric sheets. At least where I am, even in secondary choirs - kids who choose to sing - it's the norm to just use lyric sheets for singers and only have sheet music for those on instruments. Having grown up with sheet music from the start, I think it's sad, but I get that it's cheaper.

Literally this. Why do my children need to sing about Jesus to be unified? They can sing any number of songs in schools/nurseries. FWIW I was brought up catholic and affiliate with no religion as an adult, so don’t really want religion force fed to my children.

Next thought could be easier to let the kids spend day and night in schools being taught everything and parents only see them at weekends when all the parenting has been done for them. Honestly people want teachers to do everything.

And no OP as an atheist I would not like my kids singing hymns and being hypocrites.

crosspost @Millytante !

Singing Together also taught me the power of the lowest common denominator in the public vote. At the end of each season, all the primary schools would vote for their favourite song. My personal choice was always some wistful and obscure folk ditty from somewhere like Polynesia, complete with harmonies and nose flutes, but the winner was invariably some blockbusting, crowd-pleasing stomper from America like Casey Jones. So obvious.

Eh???

I LOVE a hymn (though I’m a Christian so there’s an obvious bias). I wasn’t too fussed that my kids wouldn’t learn them at school like I did because we go to church anyway, and I can totally see that school singing should be inclusive etc.

But the singing they do at my youngest’s school (she’s still in primary) is so rubbish. It’s all pop music and it’s not even good stuff mostly, it’s maundering nonsense by westlife etc (obviously not chosen by the kids). I also really don’t like that they’re absorbing so much music where the lyrics are about love and sex - not because the sexual content is inappropriate as obviously they’re not using overtly explicit songs, but because it just really is so boring and is giving the girls the idea that love and romance is the only thing worth making music about and therefore getting excited about. Shout out to k-pop demon hunters there for at least contradicting that message I guess!

At my primary in the eighties and nineties all of us (a lot from different backgrounds) used to sing the likes of Shine Jesus Shine and my best friend from primary (Hindu background) used to love the singing. Tbh if you explain to children that the hymns are about whatever you relate to spiritually through the lens of the Christian religion (where appropriate- we also did lovely songs about Rama and Sita at Diwali!) I think this might be better than endless songs from the pop cannon.

"we're a culturally Christian country"

That's debatable.

Well I'm Scottish, so if there is a need for it (and I'm not sure I can agree that there is) and it's for tradition reasons then Scottish folk songs would fit the bill.

the singing assemblies at my kids school were all pop music etc no hymns. Listening to the young kids singing 3 little birds to the p7 leavers was very moving. As was reach by s club 7.

if you want inclusivity then hymns are absolutely not the songs for that.

You could always go to church to sing hymns

Apparently it is quite the rage amongst those worrying about the UK losing it's Christian culture

There is certainly value in communal singing, and despite being an atheist, I'm actually quite partial to a lot of the old hymns.

But in answer to your OP, I don't see any reason why it has to be hymns. Schools can choose whatever they like imo, based on their assessment of what is most likely to be appropriate and engaging for the children. We should be able to trust teachers to do their jobs and we really don't need the government to be interfering in this kind of thing!!!

Eh???? When were nuns putting kids in gas chambers in the uk?

What songs do you suggest instead?

As Tim Minchin says .... Some of the hymns have nice chords but the lyrics are dodgy.

The vast collection of traditional hymns do truly have nice chords and wonderful tunes and are very singable and appealing. I enjoyed singing them as a child and I do think they should be part of what children sing together alongside all the other songs, including those from other cultures and religions.

I sing a lot in choirs and very often the themes are basically Christian. I treat them like opera.... I do not believe the far-fetched stories but the music is wonderful and inspiring and we sell our children short if we do not expose them to a variety of music.

My DDs went to a non-faith primary school. We deliberately chose to live in a village with a non-faith primary school, lots in or area are CofE. Despite the school not being a faith school, the head took the requirement for worship of a broadly Christian nature very seriously. They sang lots of Christian songs, but generally they were absolute dirge. Things like 'My God is a Great Big God'.

In those circumstances, I would have much preferred some more traditional hymns, if only because they are generally better written and sound better.

But the obvious solution is not to include worship in schools. Singing, by all means, but making children join in singing and prayer to a higher power they don't believe in is borderline offensive. I did offer my DC that I could withdraw them from collective worship, but they didn't want to stick out like that.

like it or not, we are a culturally Christian country. Have been for hundreds of years, Christianity has shaped our institutions, laws, architecture, holidays, language etc. I’m afraid a couple of decades of more people of different faiths aren’t changing that.

Oh yes it is, nothing is static. British culture is constantly evolving now more so than ever. We have plenty of traditional elements in our culture that have Christian roots, but we are inevitably moving away from a Christian oriented society and that is a good thing.

However this has nothing to do with Christian culture and even less to do with hymns. Your entire post is a not so thinly veiled pot stirring racist post. What you mean by “Christian tradition” is in fact white British culture. You aren’t fooling anyone.

Communal singing I agree with, hymns I don't. Yes, the UK has a history of Christianity, but times have changed and whether you like it or not, we're very diverse now. We have to respect that. I doubt Muslim families would want their children singing about a God they don't believe in, likewise atheist, Sikh etc. People can worship their particular God/prophet in their respective places of worship. Schools should be neutral.

We did this one too. Also loved it.

We also sung Shalom. All things Bright and Beautiful. Little Boxes. This little light of Mine. Prince Rama and Princess Sita. Kum By Yah. Loads of different ones.