To say: Women, stop marrying down.

[MarriedUpMindset]

Too many women are marrying men with less ambition, less emotional intelligence, less income or less stability, and calling it “love” or “potential.” Then they carry the emotional labour, the life admin, the income gap, the household mental load and quietly burn out while trying to stay “grateful.”

I’m not saying you need a millionaire. I’m saying stop being the upgrade. Stop settling for men who see your strength and success as something to lean on, not rise to.

You don’t need to mother him, teach him how to communicate or drag him toward adulthood. If he’s not already moving through life with direction, respect and maturity, why are you tying yourself to that?

AIBU to think a lot of women’s relationship problems would disappear overnight if they just stopped marrying down?

Given that the OP is blaming women for men being shit, obviously it's all our fault. Men have zero responsibility for growing up.

He's likely ambitious, hard-working, emotionally intelligent... and doesn't lack a bob or two.

I agree with you @MarriedUpMindset .

I've also told my daughter to make sure he's is a generous man, like her father and grandfather.
I can only imagine one that's well to do and stingy is much worse than one who has nothing to give.

Generosity is a good example of a trait that isn't inherently good or bad, but more an indicator of compatibility.

I hate the insult "tight" so let's go with frugal. A generous man will not be compatible with a frugal woman. They will argue over his generosity to friends and family members and even over the fancy but unnecessary things he buys for their own household. The frugal woman will be compatible with a frugal man. The generous man will be compatible with a generous woman.

YABU to mention money.

I don’t think income is relevant at all.

I would rather have a loving man who is a hard worker and decent person and father but is on NMW than someone rich who isn’t these things.

What about men who are disabled or have disabled kids and can’t work or earn much?

I think men and women should find someone who has similar values to them and is a decent person.

My grandad was not wealthy but he worshipped my grandma and kids/grandkids she had the most fantastic life because of it.

You haven’t actually met any of the women posting on here. They may not be marrying down.

Her parents judgement. Not mine.

No, income gap was one of the first thing she mentioned.

Given how in my age group men earn more than women, if men refused to marry down, we'd all be in trouble.

Many of the ones stuck in unhappy marriages have married up.

I disagree with this, my DH is extremely generous, I am more careful and frugal. We actually balance each other out perfectly.

We have been married 30 years and never had one argument about money.

Bear in mind also that Elizabeth's feelings changed when she was shown round his enormous country estate...

I don’t disagree to an extent. I married a lovely man but yes I married down in terms of finances. It doesn’t bother me but I would probably advise my daughter differently.

In what way is marrying a tradie marrying down?

Does being a tradie mean a man lacks all things the OP listed as 'down'? I don't think so.

less ambition, less emotional intelligence, less income or less stability

Tradies could score pretty highly on this, imo.

I disagree, I married down and trained him up. Ideal.

I think it comes down to marrying a reliable teammate and therein lies the issue, their aren't enough men out there who set their own needs apart in favour of joint enterprise of marriage or child rearing.

This means that so many women marry men who don't put as much effort into the relationship because what's the alternative? Hope to find the very few men who actually set themselves aside in a relationship enough to work as a team.

This is also why men rarely marry down because even if they earn more, most (and of course there are exceptions) of their partners will be doing the majority of the child rearing, household, mental and emotional load, i.e. making a massive contribution to the labour of unit.

I think we are sitting in an uncomfortable position where there are still echoes of a past where it was good enough as a man to have an okay job, not be an alcoholic or beat on your wife and you were a catch. Back then women just didn't have the same choices to be single, legally (jobs/mortgages/credit) or socially.

Unfortunately a lot of men's responses to this is not to level up like women have in the work place but to blame women for the temerity of becoming legally self-sufficient and no longer subjugated! Which goes back to; if men won't get with the programme then women will marry down if they not want to be alone or have children alone.

And yet it was, because your immediate thought in response to the OP was to remember something about a man in the trades from 40 years ago!

That correlation happened in your mind.

There was nothing in the OP to suggest occupations had anything to do with what she was talking about (and they don't).

I agree with this. They should be equally matched in income/opportunities etc so that it’s fair across the boards that each partner brings something to the table and does 50/50 with home and children.

A lot of the posts on here are women who unfortunately chose low paying careers and then it’s so much easier to justify cutting back to even less because you are the partner who’s income matters less to the family pot.

In my case, DH does half of the housework and childcare easily. I do a bit more of the mental load and we are working on that. But I only bring in 2/3 of his income so it kind of evens out. I often wonder if he’d consider he married down because my income capacity is much more limited?

People change.

You can "marry up" and find they've become a different person in 10 years time.

It's really not that simple @MarriedUpMindset

You're right, I think I was being a bit reductive. Compatibility can definitely involve an element of opposites attract. But both people have to be the kind of person who's OK with their partner being the opposite of them - which is its own kind of compatibility...

I like that.

I agree.

I don't think "marrying down" in the OP referred to socioeconomic status or occupation, at least not to me.

So many women, including legions here on MN, hook up with immature uncouth louts lacking in empathy, ambition, kindness, sense of responsibility, work ethic, provider's ethic, etc. And so many women allow men who aren't committed, or who are outright flighty, feckless and disinterested, to sire their offspring. It's truly baffling.

"Don't marry down" means don't hook up with anyone who is less mature, less responsible, less empathetic, less financially solvent/savvy, less kind, less articulate, less curious about the world. Don't saddle your children with a piece of shit for a father. Have standards and hold out. Better to be alone than to be with a loser.

Maybe men feel they are marrying down, men are not a bank and we endlessly hear about feminism but it only seems in the pick and mix variety.

Why are women trying to remain independent human beings and actually act like the grown ups they are, or do they have some weird daddy issu3ds going on

A woman doesn't need to be taken care of like she is a doll ahe needs to act her age and be her own mature person, maybe give being a grown up a try

Oh look, a drunk man has entered the chat.

It's the ones who are still at dating stage, no kids and you just want to metaphorically shake them because they are ignoring or excusing red flags. I was one of those people and if I could give my younger self a talking to on recognising them and having the self confidence to not accept or ignore a single red flag, I would have made very different choices.

Indeed