Son not invited to friend’s birthday party (13)

[PeoniesGinandBags]

My son is part of a group of a dozen or so boys in our smallish community who went to the local primary school together and then moved to the secondary school. Much bigger as it takes in from all the villages etc.

It was one of the boy’s birthdays and, it turns out, he had a birthday party at what looks to be a kind of snooker, bowling type place. I only know because his mum just shared all the photos on Facebook.

all of the boys from the group were there. My son had not been invited.

The family live a few doors down and whilst as parents were not friends on our own, we are friendly because our boys are.

Most nights, all of them are playing online together. As they are right now!

I feel really angry and upset that my son didn’t even get an invite. I’ve not asked him about it because I don’t know what to say. Am I wrong to think this is a bit of a crap thing to do? He’s absolutely the only one not invited. I know all of them as they’ve grown up together. It feels really exclusionary.

my son and the birthday boy did have a really small falling out perhaps 8 or 9 months ago but it was all done and dusted in a day and was nothing major. O even spoke with his mum above it.

i feel so sad that my son wasn’t included. And honestly, annoyed. Who does that? I would understand if it was just 2 or 3 pals but it is absolutely all of them!!!

This. You engage in divisive flag waving, expect a divisive response.

The flag is seen as supporting the terrorists Hamas as they are the ruling body, and the majority of the Palestinians support the terrorist organisation Hamas.
Keep twisting the truth though nomas.

That did not address my point, and whilst I agree that I do not wish to be constantly reminded of the horrors of Oct 7th or in Gaza since, I also believe it is perfectly possible that in time it will be widely agreed it was genocide.

What is happening in Gaza is horrific, whether or not you think it was genocide and whether or not Israel is justified.

It’s always crazy to me that people ‘on the left’ think aggressive flag waving and outright contempt for those who disagree with you is not just recreating the exact conditions that led to the thing they are protesting.

Equally I don’t give any weight to the words of an internet random.

There’s no bias involved in identifying genocide in Gaza, merely understanding the definition. I have many Jewish friends and acquaintances and not a single one is not horrified by what is going on in Gaza.

She can put a flag in her garden, and her neighbours can seek to distance themselves as a result. Actions have consequences.

I think she is a dick. I also think it’s the risk you take when you overtly display a controversial political leaning.

Equally I don’t give any weight to words of an internet random either but you carry on.

Like during the independence shite in Scotland. People had the right to drape their cars and properties in Saltires. I had the right to make certain assumptions about their intelligence.

Not to say every Yes voter was an idiot but the saltire waving ones were all of a certain ilk.

I am "on the left", by which I mean I am a social democratic capitalist to the left of labour in economic terms.

The sorts of people (Greens, some labour, TRAs, antifa), with their agression and refusal to debate or show respect, fly the Palestinian flag, and I would argue that they are as bad as the literal (and tiny) very hard right and explicitly racist extremists in the UK, and worse than the likes of Tommy Robinson (who is undoubtedly of the right, but is, IMHO, not that extreme).

Obviously not everyone who flies a Palestinian flag is an extremist violent hard left authoritarian who refuses to debate or argue, but I don't blame some people for making the mistake.

She can put a flag. She has put flags. I’m just remarking that if she puts a flag she’s making a public statement that other people may find offensive/abhorrent and judge her accordingly. I personally would prefer connecting genuinely with others and discussing these issues in an environment of mutual trust and respect to waving flags on my front lawn.

Well this was an interesting way of starting an anti semitic thread on MN.

An OP of “a school mum won’t let her son mix with mine because of my Palestinian flags, and I can’t see how she can object as she’s not even Jewish” would have had the thread pulled within minutes.

So how about drip-feeding the anti semitic bit way into the thread that way it’s less likely to be picked up.

And this is further backed up by the fact the OP seems to think that someone not Jewish shouldn’t object to a load of Palestinian flags, but she can seemingly fly said flags against Jews? Okayyyy.

It’s very simple. If you’re flying Palestinian flags then you’re either:

A terrorist sympathiser

Or a virtue signaller.

There is no in between.

Because the reality is that the majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas and are thus terrorist sympathisers in their own right.

That doesn’t mean that there aren’t innocent Palestinians, of course it doesn’t. But let’s not pretend that Hamas care any more for the lives of the innocent than Israel do. They absolutely don’t.

And no innocent Palestinian is going to walk by the garden of someone waving their flags and think “what lovely people they are, I’m so glad we have their support.” They will think of it as what it is. Pure virtue signalling and nothing else.

Oh a parrot, great.

You might like to revise the % of IAGS voting (it was 28%) and that is absolutely standard for IAGS resolutions which are generally voted on by 25-34% of members.

Yes I would consider myself left on the same/similar terms you are:

I believe in socialist democratic politics, fair access to housing, healthcare, equity of rights, anti racism, feminist safeguarding etc.

The weird dogmatic fascism accompanying leftist activism in the current context is really frightening.

If you'd wanted a discussion about whether it's appropriate to use the beliefs of a parent against a child, or what you could do to help your son understand his exclusion, you'd have done far better not to disclose the political disagreement. Once people get a whiff of it the discussion immediately divides into those who agree with your stance versus those who don't, arguing the politics rather than the impact on your son. Unless you intended to provoke a discussion about Palestine and all this predictable left versus right rhetoric, you'd have been better to have left it at 'political disagreement'.

Sticking to the point of the thread...if I were you I'd reassure your son he was not excluded for himself but because his mother doesn't like you because of your views about Palestine.
Explain to him that sometimes our views upset others and they can't seperate them from us as people. So we have to decide whether standing up for what we believe is worth it, if it makes us unpopular. Should spark a useful discussion with him.

Maybe you're right about your assumptions, maybe you're completely wrong. [Either way your view on the matter is undoubtedly much more informed than mine, so if you're wrong I certainly can't prove it]

I'm not sure it matters whether they were stupid or idiotic, the more relevant thing is that they were perceived to be that way by all sorts of other people, and that other people (rightly or wrongly) judged them. And they should have known this would happen, because not everyone agrees (not least because there is no right or wrong answer to complex polticial choices).

When choosing whether or not to fly a flag you should consider whether you might be wrong, but you might also consider how other people might view it even if you're right.

I support the right to tell the word your views, but you can't expect to stay friends with everyone if you do.

Or in this case potentially someone who is intimidated by the Hamas flag being flown.

Is flag waving and chanting at protests simply an admission that you don't want / can't do debate?

Should the right to protest come with an obligation to explain and justify your views? Is not flying a flag nothing more than the cowards way of avoiding to justify or explain their beliefs?

Very true.

Nothing is simple in Gaza or Arab-Israeli conflict in general.

Simplifying debate into meaningless tabloid sound-bites does no-one any favours.

A Palestinian flag may indicate Palestinian nationality or sympathy or solidarity with the Palestinian people in the face of ethnic cleansing.

"You are" 12 years old presumably with that response?

We've seen real genocides in the last few decades, Bosnia and Rwanda being two obvious examples. I remember the reports of those very clearly still. They were very very different from this.

Gaza although an awful war is not a genocide. But Sudan is. The plight of the Uighur Muslims is.

"Oh I see. Yes, I agree, I don't think I could be civil to the type of person who excludes a child because of the political leanings I assume his parents have. Sending hope that you catch up with your son reach the maturity of a 13 year old soon!"

IMO a protest is a different matter, because they are usually a collective gathering and directed at political powers with the will to make change, in a situation where the protestors usually do not have a voice. That is the strength of collective action. In the context of an organised (or even sometimes spontaneous) protest sloganeering and flag waving are a message to those in charge to ‘do something’ and a show of collective will. In the context of a protest these things are about unity.

Flag waving/sloganeering in your own neighbourhood is directed at your neighbours and people you have a personal relationship with (as they are the people who will see it). People who usually have no more of a voice or ability to make meaningful change than you do. It can feel targeted and confrontational to be on the reviving end of overt political messaging you do not wholeheartedly support, from your own neighbours with no avenue for discussion/human connection. This is division. It is not the same at all as protesting in general.

I will spell it out for you: you have absolutely no platform to decide genocide, and do not appear to have good acquaintance with the definition.

I'm guessing the neighbour knew OP wasn't Palestinian.

The neighbour has every right to see the flag and say "OP seems to align with the hard left in the UK and I think that is dangerous ideology I want as far from my family as possible."