Fiancé asking for a prenup

[Aquea]

Fiancé and I have had a relatively short relationship. We’ve only been together for two years. I basically had to make it very clear that I would not be having children without being married. Just for legal protection. Got a bit of push back on that in the early days but I did say that marriage was a non negotiable for me and if that wasn’t for fiance then he and I should part ways.

Anyway, now we are engaged. Fiancé has asked I sign a prenup. Fiancé has his own successful business. We’re not talking a champagne lifestyle but he is comfortable enough and owns several assets. His business is fairly large - employs 35 people. But the margins are small and the overheads are massive.

I don’t have an issue in some regards as I’m certainly not marrying for the sake of money alone. I plan to carry on working FT.

But the actual concept is extremely cynical and unromantic. It’s really made me feel shit. Like I can’t be trusted. I’m kind of sick of indirectly having to convince fiancé that I am good person to marry.

We plan to have children.

it just feels like it’s one thing after another. Ie having to explain my reasoning for wanting to get married and now a prenup. The path to being engaged just seems already so negotiated.

Quite. OP has issued an ultimatum. Those are her terms. A prenup is his requirement but somehow that makes him a terrible beast who plans to take advantage of her and treat her like a servant. It’s such lazy thinking. If any thinking is involved at all.

A friend of mine got married and her husband required a prenup as he had family wealth. A year after the marriage he left her for someone else. She was devastated, obviously, but their divorce was significantly more straightforward and less costly than would otherwise have been the case, because they had agreed what would happen. It meant that this very unpleasant episode in her life was over quickly and she was able to move on.

Also, having a prenup does not mean automatically giving up your right to everything on divorce. They are contracts negotiated by lawyers. You HAVE to have independent legal advice on a prenup in order for it to be enforceable. The OP is free to negotiate whatever terms she requires. And actually, if a couple can’t agree on what terms are fair in the event of a divorce BEFORE they even get married, they probably shouldn’t be getting married anyway.

He is askimg for the same financial protection that you are. But tbh, the whole thing doesnt sound right at all from your messages and tone. I would walk away. You dont sound excited and happy about any of it.

Much comes down to the terms of the deal he seeks and will sign up to.

wanting to retain his personal wealth, earned before and after marriage, doesn’t indicate what he might do if divorced regarding the DC. Many divorced (or never married) fathers do right by their DC financially and in their parenting, but many don’t.

And yet you gleaned enough to post a response? Skip on then if it’s too difficult

If you go forward with this, you need to make sure the prenup works for you too - especially once children are in the picture.

It needs to specify what happens in case of injury, what the expectations are around childcare (eg. if one of you goes part time, how that now affects finances), around keeping your pension topped up if you are out of work (due to injury/childcare). I would include split of domestic labour too - as that is often the straw that breaks the camel's back.

You can't be left with all the disadvantages of a prenup, and no benefit to you (not least because a contract requires consideration/benefit to both sides)

He's not looking at marriage, he's looking at a business arrangement.

Would he take into account the sacrifices financially you would make in order to have children and would be compensate you?

I would run a mile. You're not in it together.

But your friend didn’t have multiple babies to support for at least twenty years, so no wonder it was easy just to walk away! Jesus, it’s just so basic. It is the prospect of children that changes the dynamics, not the marriage, not the pre nup.

I totally understand feeling like this, but I think it’s probably a sensible thing to do these days.

Isn’t it something like 50% of marriages end in divorce?

The whole thing can get really messy and it probably is best he protects himself (as unromantic as that sounds).

How would I know, ask the OP? 50:50 isn’t like we split every minute/job/penny in our house, it ebbs and flows depending on what we both have on at the time. 50/50 is a lot about mutual respect & understanding which it sounds like the OPs relationship is missing, they’re not on the same page. For all she knows, the prenup might include financially supporting her with time off after having children etc. The business was built before they met though so why shouldn’t it be protected 🤷🏻‍♀️

A prenup is not romantic. But it’s sensible. 2 years is quite quick to be getting married. But I think you are right to want that security before children. He wants that security for his business too as he is employing other people.

And as for you feeling you’ve had to coerce him into marriage: you have. If you don’t like that feeling, then either don’t insist on marriage, or find someone who either has fewer financial interests to protect, or who is more “romantic” (aka financially stupid).

If you both had normal jobs, employed by a company etc this wouldn’t come up. He’s just looking after his ‘baby’ which in this case is a business he’s built up. If it’s a pre-nup based on this then it’s fine, him and his e employees aren’t affected by what happens in his marriage, so it’s actually taking stress away from the situation. In the same way you should put into the pre-nup about perhaps your pension? Just a thought!

I would feel exactly like you - I’m not sure you’ll ever be totally happy with this guy. I’d feel he doesn’t love me enough and it’s definitely not romantic.
Your comments about having children and how you or they can be damaged in the process is something I’ve never considered before but is an important point. Also you may have to give up work/pension for a myriad of reasons.
On the other hand he could be incapacitated in some way in the future.
We never know what’s around the corner so a pre-nup is a bit of an insult. Is it a deal breaker?

How do you know she has no financial security - have you read his proposed pre-nup?

Why don’t you just be done with it and bill him for every child produced let’s say £500,000. At least then your expenses are covered.

This is a very sad read op. You really do deserve much more than this man can offer you.

Throw this one back OP. It's not even about the pre nup, it's clear your gut is telling you this isn't right.

Quite. OP has issued an ultimatum. Those are her terms. A prenup is his requirement but somehow that makes him a terrible beast who plans to take advantage of her and treat her like a servant. It’s such lazy thinking

My point on this thread is that relationships shouldn't be hard work

"Make" or "persuade" the man to marry you by threatening to leave

Then he has to have HIS way (the pre nup). Another layer of hard work, when he's not hugely wealthy

What is the next layer of argument, discussion, hard work?

Fuck me I would NOT be bringing children into this sort of energy

Prenups have to provide for any children of the marriage. The lack of knowledge about what a prenup is, from people railing against them, is staggering

Exactly. Sorry about your friend but glad the upheaval was minimal. Was she glad there was an agreement?

When we got married, almost 35 years ago, I was the one with a house and money. DH was a pauper when we met.

He suggested it to ringfence everything prior to marriage to me, and everything aftet as joint.

I can't see the issue of one party is significantly more wealthy than the other at a point in time, due to their personal efforts. It's fair, isn't it. In any event, it swiftly became academic for us as half of what DH has made post marriage is significantly more than I brought to it.

I think a prenup is very sensible when one of the two has a business. It protects the business from possible bankruptcy in case of divorce but more importantly, it can protect the non business partner from financial debt if the business goes bust. I would insist on signing a prenup if my partner had a business. I’m marrying him, not his business and certainly don’t want to take in the financial burdens of a business I don’t own. Even if one decides not to want a prenup in such circumstances, one should definitely meet a solicitor to talk through the implications if the business goes bust during the marriage. Who is financially responsible etc. What can be done to make sure business issues don’t affect family money etc.

op, It sounds like want a romantic fairy tale wedding, which is fine but marriage is a contract and you would be stupid to sign a contract without making sure you’re protected if things go wrong. In this case, it’s not just about you and him, but you have to consider the business. That needs to be protected, and you need to be protected. Yes that’s legal work.

If his money wasn't the attraction you'd have zero issue signing a prenup.

‘Providing for’ is a very, very loose term. We all know how much it costs to have children.

It’s not even just the financial cost, it is the emotional and physical labour and the responsibility for multiple decades that no pre nup can include. It’s becoming a single mother and dealing with everything alone that it won’t make provision for.

What happens if the child is severely disabled and op can’t work? I doubt the pre up covers a life time of earning capacity. It is a very flawed option for anyone considering children.

Yes, she was, because she wasn’t marrying for the money, had a decent job herself, and once the awful thing happened, she just wanted all the divorce admin done. Two years later she is thriving. Without the prenup they’d probably still be wrangling over finances now. They’d been together 10 years before they married. It was really horrendous what happened to her and how it affected her emotionally but at least she didn’t have to spend £50k+ and a year or more untangling their finances.

He’s absolutely right. A pre nup to protect his business is 100% the right thing to do. A properly set up pre nup will hold up in court so long as it was entered into by both parties taking their own legal advice.

whether or not you should be marrying this person is a whole other matter.

i have substantial assets and a long term partner. No way on this earth would I risk them by getting married without a pre nup and he knows that