Fiancé asking for a prenup

[Aquea]

Fiancé and I have had a relatively short relationship. We’ve only been together for two years. I basically had to make it very clear that I would not be having children without being married. Just for legal protection. Got a bit of push back on that in the early days but I did say that marriage was a non negotiable for me and if that wasn’t for fiance then he and I should part ways.

Anyway, now we are engaged. Fiancé has asked I sign a prenup. Fiancé has his own successful business. We’re not talking a champagne lifestyle but he is comfortable enough and owns several assets. His business is fairly large - employs 35 people. But the margins are small and the overheads are massive.

I don’t have an issue in some regards as I’m certainly not marrying for the sake of money alone. I plan to carry on working FT.

But the actual concept is extremely cynical and unromantic. It’s really made me feel shit. Like I can’t be trusted. I’m kind of sick of indirectly having to convince fiancé that I am good person to marry.

We plan to have children.

it just feels like it’s one thing after another. Ie having to explain my reasoning for wanting to get married and now a prenup. The path to being engaged just seems already so negotiated.

I asked for and got a prenup (am female) to protect my assets. More and more of my friends of both sexes are doing so.

From reading all your updates, I think the prenup is perhaps a red herring. What you are really unhappy about is having to persuade him to marry you.

I agree that he should be delighted to be marrying you, and you to him. I think that's the usual desired state of affairs.

I made dh sign a prenup.

He had zero assets and I own my own home. I am not sacrificing my security should we split up.

We also had an agreement in place prior to marriage when he moved in to my house

He is right to protect wnat he has built up.

"These are my requirements to secure my future. I need to know they are in place before we carry on this relationship."

"Really?"

"Yep. Otherwise I walk."

"Okay, I agree. And here are my requirements to secure my future. I need to know they are in place before we carry on this relationship."

"You are cold and unromantic, and it shouldn't be such hard work."

Oh, and I forgot to add - what if he can't work? Are his assets "protected" while you look after the family?

I have sympathy for him- he has built a business without you. He has 35 staff to take care of. He doesn’t want you to get part of it in a divorce. Not only would he lose his wife he’d also lose his business. Too much to risk.

This isn't a relationship where you're both happy with the arrangements. That in itself should be enough to tell you it's not for you. Doesn't matter what we think. Its what you think and feel that's important.

2 years is still fairly early on so his suggestion isn't outrageous however I can understand how it feels to you.

If a divorce happens then there is a risk he could lose his business so he should think about it and mitigate risk. It's not just him, it's his employees who would be affected.

Go and talk to a solicitor, see how it shapes up. Like all contracts it should only be discussed again, if the relationship breaks down. As you brought up marriage early on he should have raised his requirement for a pre nup but I think it's reasonable.

When I got divorced, my solicitor told me that even with those criteria met, the court can still decide on a different financial settlement, and a pre-nup is not enforceable, only a ‘relevant circumstance’.

I think he’s in the right to protect his business in the event of divorce, and I’m afraid I find you the red flag that you object. Divorce happens, no one plans it, it doesn’t mean you will divorce, you may have a life long happy marriage, I’m sure you’re both going into it with that view.

but you wanting legal protection and objecting he wants the same doesn’t sit well with me. I’d tell him if you’re not willing to accept this, to end the relationship.

Prenuptial agreements meeting the criteria I set out below are routinely upheld by the courts and have been ever since the decision of the Supreme Court in the Radmacher case in 2010

I don’t think he’s doing anything wrong, he’s only doing exactly what you did by saying you want some legal protection in case it doesn’t work. Just like you. That said, if your gut is saying this isn’t right, listen to it and don’t marry him.

That you live outside the UK negates my comment so your need for the added insurance of claiming to be a solicitor is puzzling.

Surely you see why you're not making any sense? You're protecting yourself... but object to your partner protecting himself. You're both doing exactly the same thing. The fact that you object so much makes me think he is very wise to put this in place.

OP is right that it shouldn't feel so much like hard work.

Wanting marriage before children and protecting your existing assets before marriage are both sensible. They're not entirely gendered either - we'd give the same advice to a woman who owned her own business, or a lower-earning man who was either going to take a step back from his career or become a SAHD.

But I think in most healthy relationships, people would move past the twinge of feeling "this is a bit unromantic/transactional" and realise why their partner needs to protect themselves financially - and ultimately they'd have no issue going along with those legal measures.

The way OP writes about her fiance, though, reminds me more of couples who are actually divorcing - mutual suspicion, tit-for-tat moves, rancour and resentment. OP, why do you want to marry this man? Do you even like him any more? It doesn't sound like you do.

Separately there's a lot of alarmist rhetoric in this thread about how having children will wreck your body and career. I can't quite square this with the majority of mothers I know thriving physically and picking up their careers where they left off. I know there are risks but it's a bit of a worst case scenario that doesn't apply to most.

Well you can just say no, but if you feel like he is overall the right person it's probably daft to do that, so just get advice.

I think once you have kids, prenups aren't taken into account (they aren't legal here but can be considered) - what I would do is get a solicitor and make sure the terms of the prenup are fair so if the UK legal position changes, you are still well protected.

I don't think he's being insulting to you, by definition in a divorce people are focused on themselves, so in that event he wants to try and protect his business.

It's perfectly sensible to want to marry if you want to have kids, but in making that point you have opened the doors to that conversation.

Two years isn't a short relationship BTW.

Tbf if the OP had her own business she’d worked hard for, she’d be told to absolutely protect it. He isn’t being unreasonable by asking for a prenup and it’s not unromantic.
But also if you force someone’s hand to propose to you and they’re not really that keen on the idea, the prospects of this marriage lasting are fairly slim. This guy isn’t that into the OP. She’s chasing some fairy tale dream where a guy thinks he’s the luckiest man in the world to get to marry her. Her fiancé is thinking uh oh better make sure I’m okay when the divorce happens. Recipe for disaster.

@Aquea You know what, this is pretty good advice. If you can navigate this together, respectfully, find compromise and make an agreement you will have shown that you both have all of the tools and behaviours needed for a successful marriage.

Or not, in which case you can call it a day

A pre-nup is to protect you as well as him. You will be taking a hit to your career and earning potential by having children, so you need to make sure this will be accounted for. The pre-nup is the best way to do this.

This 👆

That’s fair enough.

However each life stage needs adjustment to the agreement.

Kids, time served, infidelity etc etc.

You need to protect both of you. Very sensible.

You both bring your own assets to the marriage, and those are protected in the event of a split.

What is built up during the marriage is a marital asset, and will be split equally in the event of a split.

Sounds fair to me.

That’s not the case. Prenups will be upheld unless doing so would be unfair. They are as close to enforceable as you can get in England and Wales. Particularly if they have been drawn up following legal advice to both parties. So do not think they won’t be followed because in most cases they will.

You could ask for a review clause in the prenup meaning that the arrangements are reviewed once a child is born. But the birth of a child doesn’t invalidate a prenup at all, particularly where this is contemplated at the outset.

You have coerced him into marrying you. He is worried it won't last. Given the situation you have outlined he is probably right.

Unless you actively want to end up as a separated parent you would be crazy to have children with this man.

But the actual concept is extremely cynical and unromantic. It’s really made me feel shit. Like I can’t be trusted. I’m kind of sick of indirectly having to convince fiancé that I am good person to marry.

I almost feel like I've had to push him to marry me.

Prenup aside (which is actually very sensible on his part), I honestly, for the life of me, cannot see why you are marrying this man. Because neither of you sound like you want to marry each other.

It's his business. 35 people have jobs with him. I can understand his concerns. However, to me marriage is a commitment, you go into it because you want to be together forever and you want to make it work. Pre nups for second marriages yes, not so much for first.