Fiancé asking for a prenup

[Aquea]

Fiancé and I have had a relatively short relationship. We’ve only been together for two years. I basically had to make it very clear that I would not be having children without being married. Just for legal protection. Got a bit of push back on that in the early days but I did say that marriage was a non negotiable for me and if that wasn’t for fiance then he and I should part ways.

Anyway, now we are engaged. Fiancé has asked I sign a prenup. Fiancé has his own successful business. We’re not talking a champagne lifestyle but he is comfortable enough and owns several assets. His business is fairly large - employs 35 people. But the margins are small and the overheads are massive.

I don’t have an issue in some regards as I’m certainly not marrying for the sake of money alone. I plan to carry on working FT.

But the actual concept is extremely cynical and unromantic. It’s really made me feel shit. Like I can’t be trusted. I’m kind of sick of indirectly having to convince fiancé that I am good person to marry.

We plan to have children.

it just feels like it’s one thing after another. Ie having to explain my reasoning for wanting to get married and now a prenup. The path to being engaged just seems already so negotiated.

This.
He has shown you who he is - take note. He sounds reluctant to be married before you even think about the prenup…

But isn't that precisely undermining the legal protection you want from marriage?

I seriously don't understand why you want to marry this man. But if you do want to go ahead then:

1. Get your own solicitor
2. Make sure you fully understand what he is putting in the prenup
3. Set out your requirements for a prenup (that might be things like payments into your pension if you are not working due to childcare responsibilities, and a 50% share of any business he develops during the marriage)

Good luck op.

Why was getting married before having children so important to you? In your words “Just for legal protection.” For your future.

@madrush Have you not read the many threads on mumsnet from women who have been financially screwed because they are not married to the father of their children?

Unless the woman is financially independent it really isn't a good idea to have children without getting married first.

Marriage is first and foremost a legal contract which comes with obligations. I think @Aquea is being sensible.

I also think that this is not the man for her. The whole relationship sounds transactional and it sounds like there is no love in it.

I almost feel like ive had to push him to marry me.

Well, you have. You haven't done anything wrong but the fact is that you are now engaged, because you pushed for it. Twisted his arm. Several people have done the same, but there is little wonder then that yoi feel that the shine has been taken off it.

I think you need to have a long hard think about what you want to do. I also think you need to have a proper conversation about how you feel and so that you can find out how he feels about a life long commitment to YOU and your future children.

Prenups are “legal” in England and Wales, provided that both parties have had independent legal advice, the agreement was freely entered into at least a month before the marriage, both parties had full financial disclosure from the other; and the terms are fair and don’t leave either party in real financial need.

Provision for children is determined at the time of separation and prenup terms which do not make adequate provision for the child(ren) are not enforceable. All the more so for any disabled child, whose needs may change a lot more over time.

None of the reasons given on this thread as being reasons not to agree in principle to a prenup are valid reasons, because no one has to enter into a contract the terms of which they do not agree with. Just as the prospective husband in this case does not have to enter a marriage contract, the uncertain financial outcome of which HE does not agree with.

Haven’t read the whole thread, OP, but while I can see this feels unromantic on the face of it, I think your fiancé is just being pragmatic. You’ve only been together two years, he’s built his business and he’s doing what he can to protect that (and as many posters have pointed out, any agreement would presumably protect your position also).

My parents sadly died young and as a result I came into my marriage with a fairly large inheritance. An older and wiser friend of my parents advised a basic pre-nup. I remember eyerolling slightly at the time, but my DH happily signed it. I used the money to buy a family house - we are still together but you just can’t predict the future.

Put it this way, if he’d started shagging his colleague a year after we got hitched and our marriage broke down, imagine if I’d had to then legally argue against him taking half of the value of the house I’d bought?! A prenup means, broadly, situations like that cannot arise.

Sounds like a toxic relationship from both sides and you both don’t exactly sound happy?!

I think the prenup is a good idea. However, there are ways of legally protecting yourself without marriage. I am however concerned that you appear to have said 'no marriage, no children' so is this a love match or a business arrangement? Also how do you know you can have/ carry these children? Have you both been checked over? Because this all sounds v clinical and if your protecting your finances then you should consider checking you can actually do this. Everyone assumes they can have children and plan their lives around it, but often there are nasty shocks. So my advice is to be checked over physically if this is a marriage for the basis of having children. But from the perspective of a divorcee who escaped with my house and pension pot intact, I would recommend a pre up. But do you love him?

I don’t think you can get pre nup on ALL possible situations. OP might not get disabled after pregnancy and birth but her health still might be affected and no one can guarantee how quickly she will be able to get back to work. And what about him putting all possible hours into business ? It will affect OP as well. There are a lot of things in life which might affect marriage significantly.
@Aquea I would have look at prenup to get an idea what he wanted but I wouldn’t start wedding preparation before resolving this. Sign it first ( if you want) and only then concentrate on your wedding.

Not a good start to your relationship. There's no trust on either side. Won't end well.

Not a good environment to bring children into. You'll end up one of the many posters who, after sacrificing earning and pension to raise children, soon as you end that intensive 24/7 role he starts guilt tripping you to start working full-time.

His prenup will be useless mind, given UK divorce judges will split things according to housing and children needs, earning potential, current working status.

But I wouldn't expect any divorce to be pleasant for you.

You should end this and find a suitable partner who agrees with you on your role in motherhood and will support it.

Get out now before it all becomes very expensive and horrid for you. This man's not nice.

If you think prenup is "unromantic", you can't start imagining how "unromantic" a divorce might look.
Also, prenups are not legally enforceable in the UK the same way they are in the US.

I’m quite surprised by comments on this thread. I think that anyone who has built up assets would look to protect them surely? I do think it all sounds very transactional though and not very loving. I would also like to predict that when it comes to childcare it will be left to you as he has a very important job running a business and if you suggest a nanny he’ll say fine but you pay. I think there’s lots of things yiu need to be discussing op!

Sounds like a toxic relationship from both sides

Not wanting children until being married isn't toxic, but I agree that the relationship sounds transactional.

This. Neither of you trust each other. Save yourselves a huge a amount of future hassle and find someone else.

Your posts are risible and become more exaggerated with each post.
How about he charge her, say, £500,000 for every time she gets pg. charge for his sperm
Maybe, charge the baby rent, say, £500,000 for Womb use.
Her expenses? What expenses will she incur solely? Given they will presumably live together,share utilities, eat food from their shared fridge.

But they aren’t legally enforceable? Therefore it will not hold the weight or certainty her partner wants it to.

If a woman here owned property and a business and her fiance didn't, everyone would be saying to protect these in thr event of marriage, if they had been built up before the relationship. So I think the concept is fair.

However I think you need to make sure that if you break up and you have children there is fair recompense. And make sure that all eventualities are covered. Bearing in mind that self employed men always seem to find a way to hide their earnings though share options etc and get away without paying maintenance. You need to make sure that any children and you have a place to live, assuming you have them the majority of the time. And that you don't get kicked out when they're 18. Also build in what happens if you have to (or you agree with your husband to) give up work because your child is ill or disabled or has SEN and can't go to a normal childcare setting. You don't want to end up having no job, but have signed away all your assets

They are legally enforceable provided that the criteria I set out below are met

I'd look at the prenup as a way to ensure financial stability in divorce and keep any emotion out of it. Life happens and this is just one way of securing your future, and any children's.

Why would you want to push someone into marrying you that doesn't want to? Besides do you know one another well enough after only 2 years for all of this?

You wanted to be narried before having children for practical/legal resons, he wants a prenup for the same. Why does it make you sick in your stomach? I would defintely insist on signing a prenup if I were to get married 2nd time, and wouldn't have married a person who goes berserk at the sight of it.

I own a business. If I was to remarry I absolutely 100% would make sure it was protected. I haven’t built it from scratch, spent decades making it what it is, to give half of it away, to anyone, no matter how much I love them.
I would see a solicitor and add clauses you want to the prenup. I think as long as it precludes you ever owning any share in the business but provides financial protection for you in other ways (i.e. from the income from the business) it’s fine. I would not marry someone who wouldn’t agree to those terms, I’ve seen too many people, both men and women, get shafted in a divorce.

You’re both entering marriage with a very pragmatic awareness that it could end, which gives the whole arrangement a slightly transactional feel. It’s a clear-sighted way to protect your assets, but I imagine this mindset may continue to shape your relationship.

Are you giving the same depth of thought to the life you’re building together?

I can relate to this OP. My husband owns a business which has been passed to him from family members who are still alive and clearly see it as a family business.

I said I would not have children unless married because I wanted to be able to make decisions about work prioritising what is best for our children, not prioritising needing to be financially independent. I would have gladly stayed with him unmarried and childless. A prenup would have contradicted this position entirely.

However this is all irrelevant. You sound like you feel totally unloved at this point and that’s not how you should go into a marriage.

I actually think this shows that he does love you. He wants to extend you the legal interests that you want and deserve, while acknowledging marriage isn’t in his best interests.

Anyone with a business should have a prenup, I’ve seen businesses end and jobs lost when it’s split between divorcing couples who can’t make any decisions together.

But he doesn’t have all the negotiating power here - you should be getting separate legal advice and making sure there is adequate provision for you (including additional provision if your body is ruined by childbirth) and your future children.

You wanted to get married for legal protections as you don’t trust him if you were to split. A very sensible approach. He just feels the same about you and so also wants legal protections in place if you split.

If anything, it means you can have that sensible discussion now while things are hopefully positive between you, instead of acrimoniously in a split which will negatively impact your children.

If you want whirlwind fairy tale romance, then this guy isn’t for you - if you want sensible practical foundations for a relationship and partnership, then he sounds like a catch.