To think the problem with wealth inequality is that rich people don't know how rich they are?

[Neeroy]

Article in the Times today saying that people earning six figures 'don't feel rich'.

Because they are surrounded by six figure earning peers they are comparing themselves to people who have more rather than the 90% of the population that have far less. This is why the budget is poorly received in the news, because rich people think they already shoulder too high a burden when in fact compared to everyone else they still have far more disposable income. Even if they have to cut down on the number of holidays they go on. They aren't sitting in the dark under a blanket. Or only making food that doesn't require turning on the oven.

I don't think they realise how so many people have to live.

www.thetimes.com/article/1fb46414-8f65-436f-8f95-451d69626148?shareToken=8061d939633164c0dfbd805240c8e008

In all fairness free meals you have to earn less than 7.4k and 8k is hardly rich. And council waiting list here is ten years even if living in a homeless shelter (no this is not London)

I don’t lament rich people though I’m just saying

Ah yes, the privilege of a safe and secure upbringing and loving parents.

No, it’s middle class. Upper middle class max.

Rich is when you stop budgeting for childcare, holidays, or housing. Below that you can be comfortable or upper-middle, but you’re still constrained by costs.

Nah. Neither DH nor I work anywhere near as hard for our salaries as we did when we were teachers and social workers.

On this thread (and other similar ones) three things always stand out.
One is that some people believe people with higher incomes work harder than people on lower incomes. While this may be true in some cases it definetely isnt universal. Do people think that teachers, nurses, care assistants and refuge collectors dont work hard? Some high income people work hard, but so do many middle and low income earners.
Second people seem to see monetary tax contribution as people's only contribution to a functioning society. It is only one aspect. How do people think socety would function without the work provided by care assistants and refuge collectors? We need the services provided by low and middle income workers.
Third people often point out that people on higher incomes have limited disposable income after fixed costs such as housing and nursery costs. This is true, but what they often fail to recognise are the benefits of those fixed costs that are unavailable to lower income earners. Mortgages costs are high but they go towards an appreciating asset unlike rent. Being able to afford higher rents or mortgages gives you access you to neighbourhoods with lower crime, better schools and better facilities. Money buys choice that can impact your standard of living.

The CoL is impacting everyone, but we all deserve a decent standard of living.

”Relative terms” is meaningless.

Somebody on 35k a year has relatively more than somebody on 20k a year. Doesn’t make them “rich”.

I don’t think we’ve updated what we perceive to be high incomes.

I’ve seen the numbers be crunched and a single mother on 100k has less disposable income than a single mother on minimum wage and benefits. It’s almost entirely down to childcare of course, because someone on 100k gets zero help and someone on benefits gets almost entirely fully funded. Even someone on 99k gets help.

The 60% marginal tax rate (not including student loan repayment, which would make it 69%.. and not including NI, which makes it early 70s%) at 100k is crazy. As is the fact that at 100k exactly you lose all your childcare benefits. It’s a very strange cliff edge that successive governments have (purposefully??) created.

Middle Class is rich.
Only those surrounded by other Middle Class, and Upper Class, could possibly think otherwise.

If you earn 100k and pay into a pension let's say 12.5% of your salary, you are only taking home just over 5k a month (assuming your student loans are paid off). This is not a lot of money especially if you live somewhere expensive, have a child/children in nursery. It sounds a lot but if you have high rent/mortgage, run a car etc this will soon be eaten each month just on basic living costs. Of course people live on far less but if you have worked hard over many years studying/learning a trade and have a stressful job with a lot of responsibility you would have thought once you are on this kind of money you will be able to afford nice things. It just doesn't go far at the moment. People on this sort of money are going to feel the pinch as they are more likely to have high outgoings, they may have bought a house when rates were low and now they are facing huge increases in monthly payments. People on 100k 15 years ago likely felt very comfortable, it isn't what I'd call "rich" now. A decent salary compared to many yes, but not well off. I have lots of friends on more than this, they all stopped at 2 children for financial reasons!

I haven’t said people on six figure salaries work harder than teachers or social workers.

I’ve said that they will have worked hard to get (and keep) those jobs. Which it sounds like you both have - recognising you need to change career, being the first move.

But in turn they're worlds away from the seriously wealthy, asset rich, financially free people at the top, so they're still in the middle. Basically if your life style depends on your labour, you're a worker. Workers just get sub divided based on the type of work they do and, in some people's definitions of class, how much they're paid.

I would say that the 'City' jobs which pay very highly are also very ruthless about getting rid of people who are not performing. Certainly there are aberrations in all companies, but given they are happy to pay people off to avoid drawn out negotiations or performance management plans. Some banks cut the bottom 5-10% of relative performers annually, irrespective of their absolute performance.

You can repeat this until you are blue in the face of this makes you feel better. This doesn’t make it true.

every poor person in the UK is rich if compared to a village in Malawi or India. They think otherwise only because they are surrounded by people in the UK.
so, they are rich. No matter what they can actually afford.
makes sense? No?

As a disabled person (disabled through medical negligence) and an ex high tax rate payer, I am incredibly grateful for those who contribute the most money to our economy. They deserve to enjoy their wealth.

So for a few years the single mother on benefits may have more disposable income that her peer earning 100K (are you really sure that's correct?).
And are you sure someone on NMW gets entirely fully funded full time childcare ie cover for the single mother working full time hours.

Anyway, once they're at school the NMW single mother will be firmly back in her place.....

The reason the vote is fairly evenly split is because this works both ways. Rich people don't understand what it is to be poor, and vice versa.
The issue people on £100K+ have is that they are disproportionately hammered.

The issue people on low salaries have is that they can only afford a very basic life.
Tax system needs to be more equable or there's no incentive to be a high achiever and productivity suffers as a result.

Cost of living crisis also needs to be addressed.
Two separate problems but with a natural tension between the two.

Why do you assume everybody who is a high earner had this?

My friend says "everyone feels poor" . which is true I think .ATM COL is so high and everyone feels stretched at some level. I dont think it helps when people look back at the 70s and 80s and compare themselves to their parents lives . Food was expensive back in the 60s ,and families spent more of their budget on a Sunday roast .less on crisps which were seen as treats. Many more women work. and the standard of living is high now and demands 2 incomes

I understand what it is to be poor. I was raised in a poor family, I spent a year homeless as a child, many of my family are still poor. The fact I now earn a lot of money has not changed that.

we were talking about hard work - you are just want to be bitter and find fault to anyone richer than you basically? got you.

because it's easier to find excuses for NOT being an achiever yourself, that's what it generally comes down to.

I totally agree with you- I live in an area which has been completely gentrified (live with parents as can't afford to rent) and most of the ppl round here have no idea how good they have it.

Also lots of people with second homes moan; I have had 2 near-identical conversations with mums from school where they are gettig their houses completely renovated/ extended (as much as is feasibly) possible and they have had to decamp the family to the flat they own. Apparently it has been "hellish" 🤔 🫩 it's like you're sitting on £100's of thousands of pounds it is just in the form of a home in the south east.
They make a passive income too, normally, by being a landlord. People always forget about passive incomes.

There was an insane (imho) thread on here about how £45k isn't a good wage and it annoyed me so much because it IS a good wage. It might not get you as far as it used to but OMG if you're in a couple and you both earn that you're earning nearly £100k!! And people were still moaning. It's madness.

£2K childcare fees, which is what she said.

I'm sure there's truth in people not realising how privileged they are, but I actually feel less well off now than I did when I was single earning £35k. We have a much bigger house, more mouths feed, more hobbies to pay for, a car to run which I didn't need before, bils are all higher. Nursery fees and uni fees.

I feel comfortable and fortunate, but not rich. We're not affording expensive holidays multiple times a year. We'd be screwed if DH was made redundant again. We feel in the middle - neither poor nor rich.

that's irrelevant.

People can moan about anything, it doesn't mean they don't know about realities. The 2 are not exclusive.

You know that you have it better than someone lying for months on a hospital bed, you know you have it a lot better than people in Gaza right now. Does it stops you moaning?

People can talk about "hellish" situation, about having "the plague", they can use any hyperbole they want. It doesn't mean they don't know but it doesn't mean they should be content with any rubbish situation either.