So who is going to be brave enough to ask whether Shabana Mahmood's proposed reforms are right/sensible/racist?

[Papyrophile]

Is Shabana Mahmood right or wrong to restrict asylum seeker's rights? In general?

This is why we are where we are, simplistic solutions that don't work.

Many countries will not accept back migrants, many countries where they come from have no safe air links, they are war zones.

Not to mention him and Brown with the expansion of the welfare state.

Why? Blair allowed in people from Europe, who generally speaking have very similar ideals & beliefs to us.

Brexit changed all that, we now have migrants from Asia and Africa, who often do not share our beliefs etc.

That was a Tory/Boris Johnson plan, aided by the person voters seem to think has the solution - Nigel Farage.
BJ and Sunak let in, between them, over 2m people.

Immigration into the UK has been going on from the Commonwealth for decades, its nothing new.

Totally wrong, the Welfare state explosion began after WW2, the biggest expansion came in the 2010s.

The Blair's govt in Social Security spend was actually smaller than that seen under Major.

Blair operated under favourable economic conditions, that means less Social Security needed.

Thats because they made up that stat.

Yes Blair encouraged increased immigration in the first place.
Same as benefits, once you start where do you draw the line, how do you reverse it.

Not in the numbers we are seeing now …millions coming in, the size of 2 large cities.

I don’t know what world you are living in but tax credits and the 16 hour rule have changed things massively to a less personal responsibility and more a welfare dependent culture.
One which is not easy to dial down.
And yes Blair operated under favourable conditions, but the damage was done by his tinkering with welfare for when financial conditions in the country weren’t favourably.

Financial conditions at the time were good, not because of him, but his government put in welfare policies which have definitely been a negative for the country.

Who made up that stat.
If you are talking about me you are incorrect.

I think Labour are going in the right direction with this. I support it. But it’ll get scuppered by the virtue signalling back benchers. And then Reform will get in.

Yes, I think it was the democratisation of welfare by Brown that first sounded the death knell - tax credits for all, replaced by UC now, but still going way further than the idea of a welfare state mainly helping people over a rough patch financially. I would be interested in understanding the correlation between subsidising those on low wages and/or with high rents, and the decimation of UK wage growth and salaries.

I heard on R4 this morning that over half of successful asylum seekers are not working and are living on benefits. What possible justification can there be for this?

I am in favour of the reforms and rate Mahmood considerably higher than most of the Cabinet. I hope this is not another performative gesture, like the rape gangs enquiry, where Labour seems to want to be "seen" to be doing something whilst also giving every indication of sabotaging its own efforts. Either way, the likes of Stella Creasy are bleating already, so I very much doubt it will get past the back benchers.

Tell that to the people who have hundreds of Roma in their area from our time in the EU.. Their behaviour and culture is not similar to ours. Many moved here because they didn't assimilate in other parts of Europe. They havevcost local governments a fortune in fly tipping, rubbish clearance, street violence. The left wing MP David Blunkett spoke out about it years ago.

Exactly this.

Thousands of South Asians came to uk in the 50s and 60s. We invited them here. They now have British born descendants.
They have no relevance at all to boats crossing the channel in 2026 and the new proposals.

I heard on R4 this morning that over half of successful asylum seekers are not working and are living on benefits. What possible justification can there be for this?

@MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack care to comment?

Just heard a soundbite from Badenoch saying they will support the government's proposals. Will it come to that being necessary? Easily forgotten in this period of moaning about Labour but they have a hefty majority. It would take a big backbench rebellion to wipe that out in a vote, and some of those who aren't keen will at least see the even more unpalatable outcome of losing the next general election and act accordingly.

Yes it probably will be necessary, the rebel back benchers defeated the welfare reform bill.